Oil pump (crankshaft front) oil seal failures

[Guest RBSX]

thanks guys, im trying a new seal today with the covers off

[Guest captainb]

Hi,

Does anyone have the part numbers for crank seal and oil pump 1994 2JSZ- GTE - non vvti to fix this ? Looks like I have the same leaking issues.

My cam seals have been done recently unless someone messed them up.

 

Cheers

[paul mac]

My seal popped out for the first time, i then read all of this and thought id try a new seal unfortunatly it only lasted 50 miles and was pushed out again.

Since then i ordered a new pump and seal and replaced the lot, everthing seemed fine for about 100 miles and i noticed oil was leaking from the little drain hole in the plastic cover.

Once i removed all the covers i realised the oil was NOT coming from the fms but the cam seals and was leaking down the front of the engine and coming out from the drain hole, making it look like front seal was weaping.

Since fitting new cam seals im oil leak free so make sure your cam seals are good.

 

i had the exact same myself, RBSX what crankcase breathers are you running

[Guest captainb]

I've got same issue.

I have replaced seal and oil pump but still leaking.

Any ideas ?

[Tricky-Ricky]

I've got same issue.

I have replaced seal and oil pump but still leaking.

Any ideas ?

 

Are you driving the oil seal until it stops, or just until its level with the surface of the casing, if its the former, then thats your problem as the seal will obscure or block the drain aperture, which is put there to stop the oil build up behind the seal and cause failure.

[jagman]

It seems the FMS issue is compounded by poor/incorrect fitments of new seal

However it seems that the initial cause has not been really solved and ONLY on turbo cars it appears

 

Given the failures contained to turbo only cars then this must narrow the possiblities , odd pressure problems seem to be done to death

What about Detonation as an answer , mild or medium detonation ,causing shock waves down to the crank and bending the crank causing either oil pump or seal issues?

It has to be turbo related and the turbo cars will be far more det/pre ignition prone , long term or mild det could go undetected and create such problems ??

Edited September 25, 2010 by jagman
spelling (see edit history)

[Chris Wilson]

Detonation causing the crank to bend? What exactly are you smoking? Now what do turbo engines do to the oil? They give it a very hard time, especially cheap oil. Degraded oil no longer lubricates well, hence the pumps wear out faster.

[jagman]

http://support.mscsoftware.com/cgi-bin/kb_files/Cummins_Pfleuger_paper.pdf?name=ri%2F1-13%2F1-13B2-2668%2FCummins_Pfleuger_paper.pdf

 

Crank are subjected to bending stress,supported by the bearings , detonation on one cylinder can send huge forces down con rod to crank at the wrong time in its cycle .

if it was simply down to poor oil or degradation then at least 1 NA car would have the failure , and newly rebuilt engines would not have the fms fail ?

Has any na cars had an oil pump fail

[Tricky-Ricky]

In order for the crankshaft to distort enough to cause FMS failure, i think the effect would be readily apparent by the engine trying to shake itself to pieces;)

 

The only reason apart from the oil dilution from the extra unburnt fuel diluting the oil and in turn causing oil pump wear, that i can think of that is feasible, is bad ring/bore seal contributing pressure to the oil filled aperture (from normal operation) already undersized oil drain behind the seal, which in turn would compound the free draining through this.

 

As the N/A engine is mapped a lot more frugally when in open loop, the oil dose not suffer the dilution that the TT version does, however i would think that a badly maintained N/A with very high mileage may exhibit FMS failure, but it would be considered normal wear due to high mileage.

[jagman]

Im not talking about the crank like a bloody Banana! , high frequency oscillations that cause an eliptical movement of a few thou , compounded by high rpms at the seal - the engine already has many vibrations and harmonics and does not shake itself to pieces

How many NA cars have had the failure ?, surely even na cars can be used for very short trips on choke ?? dont they suffer dilution and many owners just drive and never frequently oil change

The only sample are the forum cars , how many have had a failure even high milers or shoddily maintained ones

Any traders or garages on here have ever changed an na seal due leaks?

Is the crank damper the same has any na owners had the thing fall off?

[Chris Wilson]

Changed several N/A dampers, det of the magnitude to cause crank flex sufficient to cause run out in the pump, via a loose drive coupling would see the piston (s) reduced to scrap. Oil sela failure is apparent on stock engines with zero sign of det. The Cummins thesis is on diesel engines with huge cylinder pressures that effectively run in det all the time.

[Tricky-Ricky]

Im not talking about the crank like a bloody Banana! , high frequency oscillations that cause an eliptical movement of a few thou , compounded by high rpms at the seal - the engine already has many vibrations and harmonics and does not shake itself to pieces

How many NA cars have had the failure ?, surely even na cars can be used for very short trips on choke ?? dont they suffer dilution and many owners just drive and never frequently oil change

The only sample are the forum cars , how many have had a failure even high milers or shoddily maintained ones

Any traders or garages on here have ever changed an na seal due leaks?

Is the crank damper the same has any na owners had the thing fall off?

 

I would say that the std pump is probably quite robust even at highish mileages, provided that it is not subject to oil dilution, and since the N/A choke is ECU controlled, it is hardly likely to cause a problem.

 

Yes it would be interesting to see just how many FMS failure's have been recorded on the N/A engine, i still think that a weeping, or failed seal on a high millage engine is not going to be considered a big problem, just something that would be considered normal wear and tear, unlike the low mile TT seal failure's.

 

As for the crank damper again as there are more TTs than N/As, the proportion of damper failure's reported will coincide, also i think it may be a case of environmental factors involved in the degradation of the rubber part of the damper, IE the TT engine bay temperature's being considerably higher, and also the the higher acceleration speeds of the reciprocating parts taking there toll.

[jagman]

I would agree that the low mileage tt fail is the issue and the lack of low mile na s failure points to the possile caused.

 

Det does not have to always destroy pistons ,but the pressure acting against the direction of rod travel can be large with the mixture ignited at the wrong time

 

 

 

"In more severe or prolonged detonation, local temperatures melt the aluminum causing "termite holes" in the piston. With any engine type, burning of holes into or through the piston firsts require the destruction of the boundary layer and a burning off interceding carbon deposits. Evidence of boundary layer destruction by detonation is best early identified by the complete removal of carbon deposits in areas normally observed to contain carbon. This removal often is localized and close to the outside edge of the piston dome.

 

Detonation damage is not limited to burning of holes in pistons or the combustion chamber (typically between the valve seats). The rapid increase in pressures can over-load the rod bearings causing lubrication failure and quite possibly bearing failure. There could be other more hidden damage caused by detonation such as detuning of engine counterweights and resultant over stressing of the crankshaft ".

[Tricky-Ricky]

Still can't see any way detonation effects would be a contributing cause of FMS failure, as i am pretty sure there would be some tell tale very abnormal wear/damage signs to the oil pump that would be pretty apparent when dismantled.

 

All i have ever seen is friction damage to oil pumps, also surly detonation which by function has to originate in the cylinder, would have very obvious and soon felt effects far before any others could occur, also unless all the cars that had seal failure had faulty det sensors, the ECU will keep retarding the ignition timing until det stops.

 

Trying to look at the subject logically, but i still can't subscribe to it being at all possible sorry.