Hybrid results {confusing}

[Homer]

I think he needs to get a wideband and a SAFC2 as a minimum

 

Yep Thats the minimum way to get 550's working on a jspec.

 

Leon, it needn't cost a fortune, maybe £180 for the gauge, £300 for the SAFC2 (unless you can get a 2nd hand/ebay bargain), plus £200 or so to get it set up.

 

A cheaper option would be to reinstall the 440's and keep boost to 1.2bar.

[rob wild]

Hey Leon if it makes you feel any better my best was 13.4 so the point of my single was Anyway just a though matey your car was making more of a whistling noise as it went past as the day went on? So maybe check that IC pipe again for a leak?

 

I think Derek will have an SAFC for sale shortly if you want to pm him to sort your fuelling?

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[gaz1]

Yep Thats the minimum way to get 550's working on a jspec.

 

Leon, it needn't cost a fortune, maybe £180 for the gauge, £300 for the SAFC2 (unless you can get a 2nd hand/ebay bargain), plus £200 or so to get it set up.

 

A cheaper option would be to reinstall the 440's and keep boost to 1.2bar.

 

bugger i just sold my saf2 for £75 did not think they cost that much:(

[leonv]

Hey Leon if it makes you feel any better my best was 13.4 so the point of my single was Anyway just a though matey your car was making more of a whistling noise as it went past as the day went on? So maybe check that IC pipe again for a leak?

 

I think Derek will have an SAFC for sale shortly if you want to pm him to sort your fuelling?

 

Cheers

 

Rob

 

Cheers Rob:d Yes, but we know you have 500 bhp. It is just sorting the teething problems. Are you any wiser

[Homer]

bugger i just sold my saf2 for £75 did not think they cost that much:(

 

Oops, may I offer a "doh!" ?

[TT-DEK]

Ah, no you cannot do that mate

 

The ECU is designed to fuel for the 440cc injectors, fitting 550's means it is overfueling across the entire rev and boost range by 25%. Though this means an increase in power at the peak rev range (as you decatted at the same time), it will be massively overfueling everywhere else.

 

You must have an aftermarket ECU (or piggyback) and it fully mapped to run 550 injectors on a jspec. A cheap alternative is to purchase something like an SAFC2 to fudge the AR map.

 

It also explains the weird RR results, they are just wrong. I wasn't going to mention it earlier but only a 60 bhp increase is far to little, most see at least 100bhp increase at peak with a full decat (never mind hybrids).

 

It must run like a dog now, especially at lower boost levels.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. On the plus side, it can be fixed and you have a potential for a massive power increase over how it runs now

Leon / Homer.

I have the exact set up except for i have the ceramic turbos?

Same 550s resistor pack fmic AND a safc to help with the fuelling?

MY best time yesterday was 13.260, not bad for time out? here is the spec; See how things compare to your times?

 

+ .3450 Reaction

2,3130 60ft

5.9469 330ft

8.7809 1/8

86.70 1/8mph

11.1559 1000ft

13.260 1/4

110.55 t/al

[Bobbeh]

rob (wild), just read that you have a mongoose exhaust, dont you find that restrictive on your setup? You should invest in a nice straight pipe like the HKS Ti and should you'd see a power increase on that kit

[Scoboblio]

I've heard negative feedback before on the forum about hybrids.

 

Usually from people who say you can go single for £2.99, then spend the rest of time complaining how unreliable and expensive their car is.

 

Speaking about rebuild stockers that is, not hybrids in the proper sense.

[Homer]

Leon / Homer.

I have the exact set up except for i have the ceramic turbos?

Same 550s resistor pack fmic AND a safc to help with the fuelling?

MY best time yesterday was 13.260, not bad for time out? here is the spec; See how things compare to your times?

 

The key here is you have the SAFC (which trims the fueling), leonv doesn't hence the slower times/performance.

 

I still maintain that stock turbo's are the faster setup for low down acceleration (sub 100mph), which is what the 1/4 mile is about for sub 500bhp Supras. They spool faster and more smoothly than hybrids, plus the ECU is designed to use them. Hybrids are just a fudge for a higher bhp, but do nothing for the rest of the rev range where we spend most of the time.

[rob wild]

Cheers Rob:d Yes, but we know you have 500 bhp. It is just sorting the teething problems. Are you any wiser

 

LOL yeah 'teething problems' i like that I think mine came down to the following problems:

 

1) ME (first time i've done 1/4 miles)

2) ME (again having too much mechanical sympathy and not wanting to overload the stock box and TC)

3) RLTC not working making it very hard to get off the line without spinning the wheels etc)

4) When not power braking i was having to wait for turbo to come online and when it did the wheels started spinning

 

In any particular order

[rob wild]

rob (wild), just read that you have a mongoose exhaust, dont you find that restrictive on your setup? You should invest in a nice straight pipe like the HKS Ti and should you'd see a power increase on that kit

 

I think your probably right i'm sure its on the limit but it is quite at low revs and unfortunately noise is an issue as i live on modern housing estate were the walls are made of paper and a couple of the neighbours are always complaining as it is

[Chris Wilson]

So you have a J-Spec car, but UK injectors? How are you altering the fuelling?

[Homer]

So you have a J-Spec car, but UK injectors? How are you altering the fuelling?

 

He's not altered it Chris

 

Not his fault though, just had some bad advice

[Chris Wilson]

Put your stock J-Spec injectors back in. For a basic BHP comparison compare terminal speeds. As it stands you are (quickly) totally *uggering the engine. You need to address this fuelling before using the car again, in my opinion.

[Wez]

Leonv, when who ever did the hybrid and injector work for you installed them did they tell you why a fuel controller was not needed?

 

I am guessing that someone thought the fueling would not be too far out as the hybrids should supply more air across the rev range over the stockers and therefore would not be out by as much as 25%.

 

This is all thoery, I cannot get my head round why someone would upgrade injectors and not trim them, crazy eh

[Keith C]

This raises the question of what happens to those of us with 550's as standard who are running over 1bar? Does that mean we suffer massive overfuelling too, as I've had AFR's recorded as low as 10 by the top of the rev range!

[letmeshowyou]

would a mines ECU be able to adjust for this?

[Chris Wilson]

would a mines ECU be able to adjust for this?

 

 

No, definitely not.

[Wez]

This raises the question of what happens to those of us with 550's as standard who are running over 1bar? Does that mean we suffer massive overfuelling too, as I've had AFR's recorded as low as 10 by the top of the rev range!

 

A stock car with 550cc (UK/US) would have a stock UK/US ecu which is mapped for 550cc injectors, plus the US/UK cars use a MAF based setup instead of map which should help.

 

Some stock ish motors do overfuel into the 10s above 1bar, this maybe a safe guard from Toyota as the extra fuel will keep the temps down and help prevent det but rob power.

[Sheefa]

I currently have Hybrids Wez, Homer and co but am running stock 440 injectors. I haven't been above 1.25bar, and normally I'm well under 1.2bar.

 

In terms of getting the most out of them, would 550s and a RP with a EManage Blue be sufficient, or is it really even worth it?

 

I thought about some drop in 650's, but surely they're overkill for my intended setup.

 

Not easy knowing what to go for, that's for sure.

 

Cheers,

 

Greg

[Soop Dogg]

I currently have Hybrids Wez, Homer and co but am running stock 440 injectors. I haven't been above 1.25bar, and normally I'm well under 1.2bar.

 

In terms of getting the most out of them, would 550s and a RP with a EManage Blue be sufficient, or is it really even worth it?

 

I thought about some drop in 650's, but surely they're overkill for my intended setup.

 

Not easy knowing what to go for, that's for sure.

 

Cheers,

 

Greg

 

In terms of safeguarding your engine, yes it's definitely worth it. Also, I'd drop a walbro pump into the tank too. The E-Manage will allow you to accurately map the fuel delivery throughout the range.

 

I ran IanC's old hybrids with FMIC, walbro, EManage Blue, 550's/RP and found it excellent. I ran mid 11 AFR's at 1.4 bar of boost and as Ian will tell you, it easily walked away from BPU cars.

 

(And as I've now put the stock turbos back in my car to sell it, I'm soon to be selling these Hybrids/E-Manage etc too! )

[Gazboy]

I currently have Hybrids Wez, Homer and co but am running stock 440 injectors. I haven't been above 1.25bar, and normally I'm well under 1.2bar.

 

In terms of getting the most out of them, would 550s and a RP with a EManage Blue be sufficient, or is it really even worth it?

 

I thought about some drop in 650's, but surely they're overkill for my intended setup.

 

Not easy knowing what to go for, that's for sure.

 

Cheers,

 

Greg

 

The Emanage Blue has got to be worth it simply for having a fuel map above 1bar boost pressure. It's probably best to have the car run on a RR with a wideband to check your fueling first.

[Sheefa]

Thanks Soop. Got a decent Walbro in it already, and an AEM AFR gauge to keep an eye on things, plus Boost Controller.

 

If you are selling and haven't found a buyer 'yet', please keep me posted. Interested in both the 550's and E Blue.

 

I've heard a lot of people raving on about the benefits of an EMU over the Blue version, but also quite a few mapping issues with the EMU. I'm thinking I might as well get the basic version as my setup won't be changing much in the next few years.

[Wez]

I agree with what Gaz and Soop have said.

 

If you run anything above 1.2bar your fueling is the hands of the gods on a J-Spec as the map sensor only accurately reads upto 1.2bar. The PE 650cc have the advantage of not needing a resistor pack but then PE also do some 550cc drop ins.

 

When using a piggyback unit you dont want to increase the injector size too much as they tend not to work as well when you try and trim them. I would guess 650cc would be about the limit over the stock 440cc.

 

With hybrids at 1.4bar 550cc should be enough too.

 

Ian C is the man to talk to too.

[Soop Dogg]

Thanks Soop. Got a decent Walbro in it already, and an AEM AFR gauge to keep an eye on things, plus Boost Controller.

 

If you are selling and haven't found a buyer 'yet', please keep me posted. Interested in both the 550's and E Blue.

 

I've heard a lot of people raving on about the benefits of an EMU over the Blue version, but also quite a few mapping issues with the EMU. I'm thinking I might as well get the basic version as my setup won't be changing much in the next few years.

 

No problems - I'll give you a shout in the next week or two if you like. I have a fields harness too so it all simply plugs in and you're good to go. (Apart from making sure it's mapped right)

 

Might be tearing it apart this weekend.....