Chris Wilson Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Is a late model N/A six speed box the same as on a manual TT? If not, anyone KNOW FOR SURE what the differences are please? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 I know for sure that the gearing is different/shorter. The exact ratios for the V161 are available on the NewZealand site i think, but obviously depending on the diff etc it will top out/redline at about 150-160mph (estimated but definitely way less than the TT 6 speed V160) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 AFAIK the V161 is in the VVTi TT manuals. The gearing marginally shorter. Not sure if the NA uses that box too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Terry S AFAIK the V161 is in the VVTi TT manuals. The gearing marginally shorter. Not sure if the NA uses that box too. ok maybe the V161 name is not exclusive to the NA box, but there is no way my 6 speed na would have made 170mph+ no matter what horse power it was it simply didn't have the gearing. From NZ site Gearbox...6 Speed (V160) / (V161) First ..................3.827 / 3.724 Second....................2.360 / 2.246 Third.......................1.685 / 1.541 Fourth.....................1.312 / 1.205 Fifth........................1.000 / 1.000 Sixth......................0.793 / 0.818 Reverse.................3.280 / 3.192 Final Drive.....3.266(all TT) / 3.769(NA) so maybe the final drive is all thats different between the NA and VVTi TT manuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Look at the final drive ratio, there is your answer. also explains why some NA's are so spritely low down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 Thanks for the help guys, what I really need to find out now is if Getrag rate the 161 with the same torque capacity as the 160. Getrag are historically hard to get info out of unless you are a (big) manufacturer. At least i have a pal that speaks fluent german, and the landlady at my local, who I seem to keep in a manner she likes to be accustomed to, IS German, so I can at least draft a reasonable e-mail or get him to speak to them on the blower. If anyone has torque capacity info please speak up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Chris seeing as they are in the VVTi manual TT's I would be surprised if they weren't but they did some weird things with the VVTi like putting the smaller auto sized JDM diff in the manual. Let me know how you get on please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Terry S Chris seeing as they are in the VVTi manual TT's I would be surprised if they weren't but they did some weird things with the VVTi like putting the smaller auto sized JDM diff in the manual. Let me know how you get on please. Aha! Right, that explains wht Nicks VVTi and the R reg one I have in now have different boxes to the earlier none VVti manuals... I think they have more ali sections to the case, but have never looked THAT closely. I will now... They look sort of "more compact" somehow, too, but maybe an optical illusion. Another question Terry, I may have asked before, but can't find the thread even with the search. Has anyone ever offered throttle bodies like on the Skyline GTR engines, for the 2JZ-GTE lump? I know you or Leon had something like this on an engine, was it a Veilside? Did it also get rid of the traction control body? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 There's quite a few now AFAIK... http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25076 Not too sure on the Envy one to be honest, all the ones I've seen are rounded, this one's boxey. Incredibly technical from me there, but surely rounded would be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Chris there are a few ways mate, some better than others. e-mail me and I will tell you my current thoughts on it. And yes they mostly remove the TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Thorin There's quite a few now AFAIK... http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25076 Not too sure on the Envy one to be honest, all the ones I've seen are rounded, this one's boxey. Incredibly technical from me there, but surely rounded would be better? Chris sounds like he is forming a plan me thinks...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Virtual Works vs. Veilside comparision. Quite a bit of info over on Supra forums, i just did a search in the MKIV tech forum for veilside intake manifold. http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=166026 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Terry S Chris sounds like he is forming a plan me thinks...... And stop being so secretive, what are your thoughts on these aftermarket intake manifolds then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 many aren't worth a w**nk;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Terry S many aren't worth a w**nk;) Well if intake manifolds do it for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 My thoughts.... Nothing very interesting, but: Skyline engine is very responsive as it has the butterflies right by the ports, which is nice, with six seperate butterflies, one for each cylinder (obviously...). This tends to kill low end torque though. Toyota went for a high torque, long stroke, low end boost producing engine and presumably carried this through by the torque enhancing, smallish single throttle body. Whilst commercial twin throttle bodies mimicking Weber DCOE falnge sizes and spacing are commonly available one then has to make an air collector box and lower manifold, which gets very involved and really needs flow testing to see if it works half reasonably. read big expense... The stock intake system is purely designed to flow air, BTW. Add secondary injecors near the throttle body and the chances of even mixture distribution, given the much more desnse and "wet" mixture being flowed, is virtually nil. I looked inside a secondary injected manifold a bit ago, it was visually obvious from the petrol stains that some cylinders were not receiving the same mix as others, so if you aimed for an O2 level at the exhaust that looked right some cylinders would be mad rich, some very weak. Dangerous!! These things should be designed to flow either air or air / fuel mix from the word go, not expected to do either I have been asked to draw up costings for a fairly serious engine install, it may well come to nought, but c'est la vie. It wasmy advice he started with a late N/A car as he'd only bin a lot of TT stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Chris Wilson I have been asked to draw up costings for a fairly serious engine install, it may well come to nought, but c'est la vie. It wasmy advice he started with a late N/A car as he'd only bin a lot of TT stuff. Sounds fun, I hope you get to do the job! Keep us updated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Right very few of these things have been on a bench. Many are based purely on Volume. Toyota aren't stupid, but there is a distribution issue with certain cylinders past a certain power level. I had assumed that you were after a larger TB, but some are too big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 I saw one with a 102mm throttle body, surely overkill?? Did you read the bench tests of the veilside and the virtual works in the thread I posted Terry? Those were the only two I could find actual test data on. Is there any info on the flow rates of a stock one? Relocating the battery and straightening out the intake piping a good idea? edit: getting a little off-topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Michael at what power level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Thorin Virtual Works vs. Veilside comparision. Quite a bit of info over on Supra forums, i just did a search in the MKIV tech forum for veilside intake manifold. http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=166026 Thanks Michael. Shame it dissolved into the usual US in fighting. IMO a more real world test would have been individual runner O2 levels with the 2 manifolds, but it's easy spending other peoples money and time I know from turbo air boxes I have made myself for Volvo engines (don't knock `em if you don't kniow them...) that velocity stacks can cause a lot of grief when ntake air is above atmospheric. i usually ended up without any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Terry S Michael at what power level? Say at the smallest of singles range, 500bhp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Chris Wilson I know from turbo air boxes I have made myself for Volvo engines (don't knock `em if you don't kniow them...) Wouldn't dream of it! I have a couple of friends who used to own modified 760 turbo's, one of them heavily. Very strong engines and certainly put a lot of other cars to shame on dual carriage ways Shame they handled like a brick though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Thorin Say at the smallest of singles range, 500bhp? The stocker is just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Would I be hopelessly wrong in thinking the reverse of an Exhaust collector design could be quite a good way of getting in even amounts of air through the intake and then use individual butterfly's to control the flow at the junction between head and intake?? (PS I've not seen a Supra conversion using multiple port located butterfly's but I have seen some that use 2x80?mm intakes and have subdivided the intakes into 2 lots of 3 cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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