Remington 1 : Fox 0

[jakewebster]

I grew up on a large estate in Gloucester, my father was a farmer and land owner as are most of my family. My father had (until it was recently sold on) 290 arches of land so fully appreciate what is required to properly manage 'pests' (Foxes, deer, rabbits, game, etc).

 

I agree that "shooting for fun" does keep many game species from near extinction in certain parts of the country, but this is where you are differing between pest control and sport.

 

Your quite right homer.

 

People have different opinions on these things.

[SMiFFAD]

Rightttt

 

 

 

 

What are you pro-hunting for then? Sorry but it all seems a bit contradictory.

 

Its not contradictory at all. I dont actually support it for the volume of foxes it gets rid of, as i said its not an overly efficiant way of killing the blighters. They can spend all day chasing one and never get it, their are far better ways of achiving that goal.

 

BUT, its an ancient sport, thats very understood by pretty much everyone whos never had direct contact with it. Its just another right thats been taken away by the few in thier ivory towers. As i said before, its the principal of it.

 

Also why it makes me smile when some 300 odd riders turned out, with police escort (not interfearing), at the salisbury hunt in january! Its truly pathetic our government can waste such a massive amount of time on something, eventually ban it, then go on as normal. Total political stunt!

 

Anyway, its a subject close to my heart, so im not going to post again like i said, it just goes round in circles.

[Charlotte]

Its not contradictory at all. I dont actually support it for the volume of foxes it gets rid of, as i said its not an overly efficiant way of killing the blighters. They can spend all day chasing one and never get it, their are far better ways of achiving that goal.

 

BUT, its an ancient sport, thats very understood by pretty much everyone whos never had direct contact with it. Its just another right thats been taken away by the few in thier ivory towers. As i said before, its the principal of it.

 

Also why it makes me smile when some 300 odd riders turned out, with police escort (not interfearing), at the salisbury hunt in january! Its truly pathetic our government can waste such a massive amount of time on something, eventually ban it, then go on as normal. Total political stunt!

 

Anyway, its a subject close to my heart, so im not going to post again like i said, it just goes round in circles.

 

You said in your first post 'mummy and daughter enjoying a hack out'.

 

And you're also saying that they very rarely catch any foxes.

 

I just don't understand why that is a necessary tradition. If people want a 'hack out' they can do so at anytime.

 

What rights have been taken away? Dressing up and parading around a village?

 

My parents had a cottage in the Cotwolds and I saw many a hunt whilst we were there. It always ended up with lots of horses standing around whilst one person on foot dug up a field. I'm sorry but I just don't see that as very productive.

[michael]

There's a few cats around here that could do with the same treatment. Sick of the sodding things sh*tting in my garden. I actually retched this morning when I opened my front door from the smell of cat piss and sh*t.

 

 

There are plenty of ways to prevent this kind of activity without resorting to the pathetic reaction of causing harm to a creature that knows no better.

[Homer]

There's a few cats around here that could do with the same treatment. Sick of the sodding things sh*tting in my garden. I actually retched this morning when I opened my front door from the smell of cat piss and sh*t.

 

I hear they hate the smell of Lemons, maybe you could buy this and stick it on your drive?

 

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/152410.htm

[SMiFFAD]

You said in your first post 'mummy and daughter enjoying a hack out'.

 

And you're also saying that they very rarely catch any foxes.

 

I just don't understand why that is a necessary tradition. If people want a 'hack out' they can do so at anytime.

 

What rights have been taken away? Dressing up and parading around a village?

 

My parents had a cottage in the Cotwolds and I saw many a hunt whilst we were there. It always ended up with lots of horses standing around whilst one person on foot dug up a field. I'm sorry but I just don't see that as very productive.

 

It may not be a "necessary tradition" but nors owning a supra, we do it because we enjoy it . The modern hunt is about getting together and going out for a ride as a group (even if yes they do look silly - i used to be into offroading, and quite often came across them wandering about on salisbury plain on mobiles )

 

Actually ive just talked myself in disliking the people that go hunting... but thats another argument for another day, and not because they hunt foxes, its the pompuss snobbery i was accused of earlier.

 

Granted, banning it doesnt really change anything, they can still get together and go out riding - but on the flipside, what was the point in banning it? and wasting hundreds of hours of government time deciding to do it, when they have far far greater fish to fry. And then to add insult to injury, not police it afterwards, making it a truly monumental arse up It was all just spin.

[michael]

Which came first... the chickens or the fox?

 

BTW my old man was a gamekeeper until very recently, pheasants mainly, the most pointless job in the world - feed them, spend most of the day caring for them and then invite a bunch of stupid rich fools round to use guns that require no skill to maim them.

 

How jolly.

 

I'm here about some monkeys.... twelve of them.

[Pete]

Ah....so we have more sympathy for cats than foxes?

 

They're very similar creatures...only cats have better PR.

[michael]

Ah....so we have more sympathy for cats than foxes?

 

They're very similar creatures...only cats have better PR.

 

 

At what point did you see me condoning the murder of the fox?

[Pete]

At what point did you see me condoning the murder of the fox?

You didn't defend them either....unlike the felines.

[michael]

You didn't defend them either....unlike the felines.

 

There are plenty of other people defending the foxes, why repeat what's been said already when there is another animal to defend?

[Pete]

I don't really care about the foxes. I was just putting a spin on it.

 

Most people that say "kill the foxes" say "awww cute puddy tat".

They both kill indescrimanently (not for food)

They both wander around independantly.

They're both classed as vermin in some parts.

They both need population control.

They both have pointy teeth and sharp claws.

..ok I'm running out now.

[Charlotte]

I went to see 'Fantastic Mr Fox' at the theatre once. Not quite sure how they pulled that off really.

[s3upra]

C.W.- see you have found the tin opener(for the can of worms)

 

 

IMO a shotgun with the right load is more than capable of humanely dispatching a fox at CLOSE range-as chris did.

 

The fox does what it does naturally,humans do what they do(protect their stock,kill for food,and some kill for enjoyment)

 

Nature is far crueller than man-just watch your beloved cat next time it gets a mouse:rolleyes:

 

Anyway enjoy the pro/anti debate(not that we will get anywhere!)

[dangerous brain]

I think that pete has hit the nail on the head there. Society has very solid views on what is correct and what is not. In the UK for instance eating cow is OK but not horse. Why is that??? The horse actually has better flavoured meat on it!! Personality of animal is what it boils down to. The horse is seen as being a noble and intelligent animal (yeah right take a look at some of the dumb ass horses about lol) and the cow is seen as some kind of thicko beast that deserves being burgerised (tell you what, chase a friggin cow down a road back to the field its escaped from that is supposedly unescapable a few times then tell me they are thicko's).

Same goes for cats and foxs. Essentially a very similar instinctual creature. They both kill for food, they both hone their skills by "playing" with their prey. They are actually both guilty of havin a laugh with a small defenceless prey (ever watched a cat feck around with a little mouse for hours??). The difference is the cat is cute and cuddly (despite the fact that alot would have lumps out of your arm quicker than look at you) and the fox is a flea infested vermin creature.

 

My take on the situation is this. We the human beings as always have cocked up the natural order of things (chickens and various other fowl don't naturally hang about in convenient sheds for instance). Vast tracts of land naturally don't occur with acres and acres of crops on with little or no naturally occuring woodland, copsing, and hedgerows. So when this situation occurs Mr foxy has to adapt to his environment to survive. Something it would appear that he does very well. In urban areas he has countless dustbins full of leftover human waste food to chow down on and little or no resistance to gaining this source. In the country areas there are penned up creatures just awaiting a good chomping.

 

This is the part most fluffy cuddlests don't like. Nature has a way of dealing with things. Unfortunately when we knacker that up we have to deal with things instead. So when mr Fox pops into the coop and kills and eats however many chickens and persistently does so unfortunately mr fox needs to be encouraged not to do so. That means his untimely demise. If you think thats cruel then ce la vie its cruel. It was more cruel to overpopulate the planet so are you now gonna start a suicide campain to save the planet from us nasty humans? Its cruel to remove many creatures natural habitat in order for us to have our homes and be fed. Its cruel on a daily basis to totally eradicate entire species from the face of the planet. To slot a fox thats eating your chickens is just the way it goes. To take a huge delight in wantonly killing anything be it human or animal is a different matter altogether.

[silvershark44]

 

I'm here about some monkeys.... twelve of them.

 

haha

 

Just watched that tonight actually! Cracking film:D

[Pete]

The horse actually has better flavoured meat on it!!

It's better for you, but I wouldn't say it tastes nicer. I didn't like it much anyway.

[michael]

It was more cruel to overpopulate the planet so are you now gonna start a suicide campain to save the planet from us nasty humans?

 

They kill indescrimanently (not for food)

They wander around independantly.

They're classed as vermin in some parts.

They need population control.

They have pointy teeth and sharp claws.

 

Terrorists are already doing this job.

 

If you don't want the fox getting to the chickens build a better fence, if he gets in your fence wasn't good enough, build a better one.

[Gamer]

I have to agree with the statement about cats. IMO they are just as bad if not worse than foxes. They kill untold numbers of wildlife sometimes just for pleasure and entertainment. They are allowed to roam free without any restrictions at all. They are introduced into the wildlife by ourselves. They were not there all the time like foxes. Yet because people keep them as pets it is acceptable for them to go out on their killing sprees.

 

 

*Cue all the cat lovers to come and defend their cuddly, purring, fuzzy, killing machines*

 

 

If I was to let my dogs run loose crapping in peoples gardens, jumping up on to their cars, killing any wildlife that moved and having sex that sounds like people getting tortured. I do not think it would be too long before animal control would be coming around to take them away.

 

 

Rant over.

[Soop Dogg]

I have to agree with the statement about cats. IMO they are just as bad if not worse than foxes.........They are introduced into the wildlife by ourselves. They were not there all the time like foxes.

 

So WE put them there and it's the cats fault?

[Chris Wilson]

I had a lesson in what it REALLY means to be "green" from my old friend over the road. He was horrified that I buried the carcass, he said I should have cut it up and used it to feed our owls, freezing what they didn't need. He thought it wasteful and ill thought out. Jane didn't agree though, she tolerates day old chicks in the freezer, for the owls and kookaburras, but said she drew the line at a cut up fox... But the old gentleman was serious, he was brought up in a large family, and they were very poor when he was young, NOTHING got wasted. If they didn't eat it their dogs and cats did. Not sure if I could bring myself to dismember a warm fox though, I suppose that's why we are still "townies" round here.

 

A quick sweep of the torch last night, around 11.00 PM shown 2 more pairs of eyes in the woods, so we think we are under siege from the brushed critters.

[Gerry]

The good news (if you're pro hunting) is that more people are hunting now than before the "ban" !

 

Most hunts seem to have got round the crappily made up law in various ways, either using hounds to "flush" to guns (whoops, the hounds have killed accidentally killed the fox) or using the hounds to flush to a bird of prey (whoops, the hounds have accidentally killed the fox), or drag hunting (whoops....) etc etc.

 

I think that the "ban it" brigade needs to be aware that our lovely government may be banning other stuff in the future if the majority (of voters) thinks it's a good idea.

 

I find it difficult to explain why I like to go with a group of falconers to a moor in Scotland to spend a week trying to catch a couple of grouse (if things go well) - thanks Griff, great week !

 

Frightening and killing poor defenceless grouse, for no useful purpose - ban it !

 

I also find it difficult to explain why I like to go with a group of car enthusiasts to Scotland to spend a week blasting around the roads at above the legal speed limit - thanks MrT, great week !

 

Using lots of carbon up & frightening the locals for no useful purpose - ban it !

 

Motorbikes, Boxing, Sword Fencing, Martial Arts, keeping pets - ban em all !!!

[SUPRASUZUKI]

The good news (if you're pro hunting) is that more people are hunting now than before the "ban" !

 

Most hunts seem to have got round the crappily made up law in various ways, either using hounds to "flush" to guns (whoops, the hounds have killed accidentally killed the fox) or using the hounds to flush to a bird of prey (whoops, the hounds have accidentally killed the fox), or drag hunting (whoops....) etc etc.

 

I think that the "ban it" brigade needs to be aware that our lovely government may be banning other stuff in the future if the majority (of voters) thinks it's a good idea.

 

I find it difficult to explain why I like to go with a group of falconers to a moor in Scotland to spend a week trying to catch a couple of grouse (if things go well) - thanks Griff, great week !

 

Frightening and killing poor defenceless grouse, for no useful purpose - ban it !

 

I also find it difficult to explain why I like to go with a group of car enthusiasts to Scotland to spend a week blasting around the roads at above the legal speed limit - thanks MrT, great week !

 

Using lots of carbon up & frightening the locals for no useful purpose - ban it !

 

Motorbikes, Boxing, Sword Fencing, Martial Arts, keeping pets - ban em all !!!

 

 

You don't go to blast round Scotland in your car with the intention to kill. That's the difference.

Boxing matches are between two consenting people. Ask the grouse if he'd like to take part in the action. He'll decline I'm sure.

 

Killing out of necessity, for food, or for protection I can live with.

Killing for fun is just wrong.