SkinnBa Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Hi guys, Ever since i've had the Supra I haven't really been that happy with the brakes. I got taken out in all the Supra's I went in so have nothing to compare this one to. My car has the UK size brakes and well the pedal doesn't bite until half way down and even though I say bite it really isn't that good. So I bought Motul fluid, new OEM discs, Chris Wilson pads and notice I have braided lines on the front...After all of this the braking is more or less what it was before I've only done about 100 miles on the new set-up and haven't really hit them hard, but my base spec Nissan Sunny brakes better!! Any thoughts, don't think it's air in the system because it was like it before the fluid change? Dan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASHTHEBISHOP Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I have little or no technical knowledge mate but might be worth borrowing a master cylinder to see if its that if you can. Some 1 more mechanically minded will be along soon i am sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_SWZ Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 push the brakes with the engine off and see if the pedal gets harder to press after 3 or 4 pumps ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershark44 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Does pumping the brake temparily make it firm? If so could be air in the system. But as you have probably bled the whole thing, I would guess master cylinder probs. Is yours a j-spec converted to uk brakes? Was the master cylinder changed then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnBa Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 Thanks for the input guys. Just been out and pumped it After about 3 presses it got firmer, but I could still press the pedal half of the way with a little force. Just before it got to the end of it's travel there was a noise, sounded like a quiet motor is the best way to describe it. It made the noise before the fluid change too. I don't believe this is a Jap to UK as the hub backing plate is UK sized. Dan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 with the engine off, having pumped the brakes a few times, does it hold pressure, or does the pedal slowly sink to the floor? if it sinks you either have a leak, or the master cylinder is knackered. If not the master cylinder may be ok... have you had a good go at bleeding it properly.. with a friend to pump while you bleed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASHTHEBISHOP Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 with a friend to pump while you bleed? thought i had the wrong site for a minute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagman Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 surely not the caliper upside down trick again! that would be twice in a month -worth a check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 The noise you mention is most likely fluid squirting past the seals in the master cylinder. That's the reason you're having to press half way down to get pressure. The seals are knackered and only seal against the bore when some pressure has built up and pushed them against the sides. This can only get worse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnBa Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 Hmmm it's sounding like master cylinder problems then, the pedal doesn't sink to the floor just stays half way. There are no leaks as the fluid is still on the max mark from earlier this year. What is required, new seals or a new master cylinder? Is there a guide for DIY? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnBa Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 **Update** Got my supe back from the garage last week, the following work has been done to the car since the start of the year: OEM discs CW Pads (that rattle ) 5.1 Fluid New braided lines Cleaned up all the shims The brakes are slightly better than they were with the new braided lines, but i'm still sure it isn't braking as it should. The garage were sure it didn't need a new master cylinder but did say 'Yeah the brakes on them can be a bit spongey can't they', one of the guys at the garage used to own a MKIV Supra, all three of them have driven it and say the brakes are fine! I swapped cars with a mate at the weekend (he's got a 300zx) he actually thought my brakes were dangerous! So i'm stumped really, unless someone has a go in my car or I have a go in someone elses, any volunteers??? I'm sure that the brakes on this car should be better than they are, especially with the dinner plate sized discs! Thanks, Dan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Well, as stated in the earlier posts, if you've now changed everything except the master cylinder and the problem still exists ......? ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 can you lock them up/get the ABS to kick in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan63 Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 i went through the same probs with mine. got really paraniod about it.then i settled for thats how they are and the problem seemed to go away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT-DEK Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I Had This Same Problems A Few Weeks Ago, What I Did Was To Bleed When Engine Running, And Not Whilst Engine Off!!! Seemed To Work For Me, Now A Lot Better:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Try taking your anti-squeel shims off the pads if you haven't already (the plates on the back of the pads). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I have braided lines, oem discs and cw pads, and my car stops pretty damn well... Really does sound like master cylinder. A seal issue might not be picked up by a garage... what garage did you use? EDIT - Where in Essex are you?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnBa Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 Cheers for the replies guys. The garage I use is Westfield Motors in Rayleigh http://www.westfieldmotors.co.uk/. They wouldn't just replace the seals because they say the inside of the cylinder gets scored over time and it's better to replace the whole unit. However, they didn't think it needed doing anyway. I've never had the ABS kick in or locked the wheels, and don't think it will with the brakes as they are. I'm in Braintree so if there is anyone local i'd be interested to compare, I don't wanna blow a couple of hundred on a new master cylinder to only find the brakes are the same. Not sure if they bled with the engine on or off - thought that only affected UK spec? Anyone have any input on this? Anti-Squeel shims are still on, how much difference is made removing them? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT-DEK Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Cheers for the replies guys. The garage I use is Westfield Motors in Rayleigh http://www.westfieldmotors.co.uk/. They wouldn't just replace the seals because they say the inside of the cylinder gets scored over time and it's better to replace the whole unit. However, they didn't think it needed doing anyway. I've never had the ABS kick in or locked the wheels, and don't think it will with the brakes as they are. I'm in Braintree so if there is anyone local i'd be interested to compare, I don't wanna blow a couple of hundred on a new master cylinder to only find the brakes are the same. Not sure if they bled with the engine on or off - thought that only affected UK spec? Anyone have any input on this? Anti-Squeel shims are still on, how much difference is made removing them? Thanks. NO, mines a J Spec. When the engine was off, i had a spongy pedal. If i pumped it a few times it went hard?, but as soon as i started the engine, it went softer again, so got them to bleed whilst engine running, and this worked? Its worth a try before you shell out on the M/C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignum Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Removing the anti squeel shims does give a slightly firmer pedal feel, but your problem dont sound like that, eather not bled properly or mast/cylinder i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignum Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I always bleed with the engine off and have never had a problem. might be worth a try though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I've never had the ABS kick in or locked the wheels, and don't think it will with the brakes as they are. then something is definitely not right.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 surely not the caliper upside down trick again! that would be twice in a month -worth a check Skinnba............have you checked this? you fitted the rear UK's yourself no? Is the bleed nipple on the upper most part of the caliper? READ THIS JUST IN CASE . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnBa Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 Skinnba............have you checked this? you fitted the rear UK's yourself no? Is the bleed nipple on the upper most part of the caliper? READ THIS JUST IN CASE . . . . Already checked those, cheers though mate. Hoping someone will come up trumps and either try mine out or I could have a go in someone elses. Just had a look in my manual and it says nothing about bleeding with the engine on or off. Food for thought though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukApache Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 i got a similar prob with my brakes; doesnt bite as it should, abs has never kicked in etc. & its been like it since i bought the car. i changed the seals all round on the calipers, fitted braided hoses, new pads, & replaced the master cylinder but hasn't made a difference i'll try bleeding them again with the engine on & let you know if it makes a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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