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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

Car won't idle - the saga continues


Homer

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Did you have the injectors flowed and cleaned before use at a well known company?

 

I bought them from Terry S who had them flow tested prior to me purchasing them. I do not know how long before this was done so this may be a potential issue.

 

The thing is, this problem is fairly intermittant, it has on 2 previous occasions cured itself after a bit of fidling...

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In the mean time, does anyone think it's worth reinstalling the stock injectors? This should at least rule out the injectors as the cause, but it's not some I do lightly as I find it real time consuming (8 hrs each time) changing them!

 

I still do :) It will eliminate soooo much uncertainty. If it still does it, it's an electrical gremlin. If it doesn't, then it's the injectors - be it the control of them by the E-Manage or the mechanism themselves. Both are lengthy paths to travel down on the troubleshooting front so picking the right one would be a good start.

 

I swapped my 550s for 440s in 50 minutes once :D You can do it without removing the plenum lol kills your fingers though.

 

Smarty's car is weird - it'll either fuel exactly as it did on the day of mapping, or add anything between 0.5 to 1.5ms extra duty on, but it'll add it consistently across the rev range and boost range :blink: I just can't understand why it's doing it. And then when he turns around and does another run, it'll do something different. But again, consistently different across the whole run. Any thoughts please do chip in. Oh and it's the stock ECU duty cycle that the E-Manage sees which is changing, not what the E-manage spits out - that's what is so odd about it. Never seen anything like it before.

 

-Ian

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i would look into the earths connections first and check continuety of the e2 from map sensor to ecu.

 

i cant see it being a injector fault as to make it run that bad more than one of them would have to sticking open and just cant see this happening

 

If it was a bad earth or sensor i could tell you within 5 mins with the powerfc ;)

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Just been reading this thread, what type of injectors are they please ?? hi or low . do you have a resistor pack ??

 

They're Power Enterprise 800cc, side feed, high impedance (I've checked the resistance and confirmed they are high imp)

 

I still do :) It will eliminate soooo much uncertainty. If it still does it, it's an electrical gremlin. If it doesn't, then it's the injectors - be it the control of them by the E-Manage or the mechanism themselves. Both are lengthy paths to travel down on the troubleshooting front so picking the right one would be a good start.

 

I swapped my 550s for 440s in 50 minutes once :D You can do it without removing the plenum lol kills your fingers though.

 

Right, thats tomorrows activities sorted :D I have hands like shovels so really struggle with these fiddly jobs :(

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i would look into the earths connections first and check continuety of the e2 from map sensor to ecu.

 

i cant see it being a injector fault as to make it run that bad more than one of them would have to sticking open and just cant see this happening

 

If it was a bad earth or sensor i could tell you within 5 mins with the powerfc ;)

 

Sorry mate, could you clarify what you mean by "continuity of e2 from map sensor to ecu". How do I measure this?

 

Do you mean the voltage reading the ECU is seeing from the Map sensor?

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Continuety (Always spell wrong :D ) Is basically measuring the resistance of the wire from the e2 pin at the map sensor to the e2 pin on the e2. There should be hardly any restistance which means they are connected. you want anything from 0 - 0.6 as some older wires have abit of resistance.

 

Put the multimeter on ohms and then touch the croc clips together the reading you get will be close to what you see through e2 wiring.

 

Good luck

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Its is definitely Pin 48. So hold one lead of your meter on pin 48 and the other on a Earth Screw (ground). That should work.

 

Just to clarify - should this show a resistance value? On mine is showing zero at pin 48 & ground, but showing 13.3 on the sensor itself?

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Swapped the injectors anyway today and still no joy :(

 

The stock 440's are back in, fuel pressure reset to 38psi and on idle the Injector duration and duty are exactly the same as with the 800's installed:

 

Duration: 8.1ms

Duty: 3%

 

It does not drop after a few minutes, it remains absolutely static at these values. AFR voltage (from the wideband) is 0.15v, so extremely rich.

 

I tried it both with and without the EMB & fields harness installed. I have a data log if anyone wants it posted up.

 

So it looks like it could still be:

- Sensor issue

- Wiring issue

- Faulty main ECU

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Send the data log to the usual address :) Well, looks like it's not the injectors then, something is making the ECU send out far too much duty cycle. Can you remove the fields harness from the loop completely and see if the AFRs are still rich, make sure it's not a moody E-Manage problem.

 

Smarty bagged an ECU for a quick test recently, might be worth asking him who he borrowed it off? Either that or see a friendly Supra owner who doesn't mind wielding a 10mm spanner for a temporary brain transplant...

 

-Ian

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Darryl, 1jz's of late have been suffering the same problems, and its more and more often turning out to be the ECU. If you open the ECU and have a good look around for any damage around the caps similar to this pic...

That leaky Cap caused the car to run on only 4 cylinders no matter which componets in the engine were replaced.

This was a 92 car, so with only a years difference its a problem that may manifest into the 2jz world if the componets and manufacturing processes used on the 1jz and 2jz ecu's was the same.

 

image

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Send the data log to the usual address :) Well, looks like it's not the injectors then, something is making the ECU send out far too much duty cycle. Can you remove the fields harness from the loop completely and see if the AFRs are still rich, make sure it's not a moody E-Manage problem.

 

Smarty bagged an ECU for a quick test recently, might be worth asking him who he borrowed it off? Either that or see a friendly Supra owner who doesn't mind wielding a 10mm spanner for a temporary brain transplant...

 

-Ian

 

I already removed the fields harness and EMB, I just reinstalled it to get the data log.

 

Both Ryan and Dandan have offered a spare ECU, so I'll try that next. Ryan also said he could plug in a PowerFC as its able to collect much more data. I'll send him a PM later :)

 

Cheers Marty, I'll crack it open tomorrow and take a look.

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Ian found the log file was showing the MAP and Greddy pressure sensor were seeing atmospheric pressure, not a vacuum.

 

Checked the Vac line plumbing and it was correct, so started pulling the lines again. This time when removing the VAC line on the Map sensor, a lump of black gunk came out! Gave it a quick clean and suddenly the car was idling much better. So it looks like the MAP sensor and/or pipe work managed to get some gunk in them at some point...

 

When I removed the intake manifold today some parts of the inside were in a terrible state, lots of black gunk and carbon/oil type deposits in the corners and down the runners. It looks like this has made its way into the Vac lines during the last time I drive it and caused all these problems. It's weird though as I replaced the vac lines a couple of week ago, maybe it was stuck in the Map sensor by then?

 

The EMB is showing 3.8ms duration and 2% duty, so still a but high, but I have yet to replace all the other lines.

 

Tomorrows job is to rip out all the crappy XS Power vac lines I used and replace with good quality stuff, remove and steam clean manifold and have a little test drive. Fingers crossed!

 

 

Ian, you're a legend!! Owe you big time for this..

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That duration is about right matey, remember they are likkle 440cc injectors now :) 2.1ms duty is for the 700cc+ ones.

 

Ah yes :) Thats good news then. I'm a bit concerned by the smoke but I obviously now have very fouled plugs and O2 sensor. Will replace the plugs tomorrow and give the O2 a clean.

 

Great news Darryl, look forward to tomorrows results now :clap:

 

Thanks matey, I'm a very happy chap right now!

 

Looks like TDR was bang on the money earlier on in the thread :thumbs:

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