michael Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Well what a suprise another religous / meaning of life thread starts off quite interesting to read but very quickly turns in to 7 pages of argument and counter argument with accusations of this that and the other. Give it chance, it could come back around again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Give it chance, it could come back around again. I will loiter witrh interest, By the way David Icke's website has some very interesting views have you had a look at it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 and does the thought of the existence of a God scare people YES. Well thats my findings, and its been fun This is just my opinion but I have always seen the belief in a God / higher power to be something of a weakness. I.e fo those who cannot cope on their own and therefore need something to cling onto or pray to in time of need. Or for those that are afraid of the thought of death and so cling onto the idea that there is something better after death (unless of course you go to hell). The existance of God does not scare me at all, the thought of death does slightly but theres nothing you can do about that. I am quite an open minded person and if God came down and worked some miracle I would quite happily concede that I was wrong. But the sort of things that happened in the bible do not appear to happen anymore. For me there is no sign that God exists and the bible is just a big story book that has been used to give peopel hope. Hope is fine but all too often very bad things are done in the name of religion. If you believe in in God then fine some do, some don't interesting post what i would want to know is what kind of miracle you would consider so beliveable that god exists - i've heard many people say what you have just said and they can't usually follow it up... for me.... the sun, the moon, and the earth being in such a perfect combination in order to sustain life is enough - further to this... the human digestive system, immune system, way of thinking, development, on a level, further deeper, how these things function in harmony on a so many level, be it molecular or otherwise - i just can't believe it can all happen by chance - and thats just one extreamly small piece of the puzzle - trees, seas, wildlife etc - the list of gods miracles is endless.... for me anyway when people think of god, i belive they think of god as being just a humanish figure... for me, god is an energy, something which never ends in all honesty, to say people who cling onto religion are weak is very short sighted - what about people who blow them selves up in the name of religion, would you say they are scared of death? in my experience, religion is for people who believe or have a deeper sense of faith in a much higher spiritual "zone" or sense.... for them its a perfect way of life - being muslim myself, i do consider this life to be just a test for something much bigger - and guess what, i do try to understand evolution and like i've said before, in my opinion creationism leads to evolution they go hand in hand probably to an extent which even science won't ever be able to understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Hey! I've had a thought. If religion didn't exist and science was as it is now ie. gradually working things out in a methodical way what would people make of the person that came along and tried to introduce the concept of a god? Assuming two thousand years of scientific study would you be able to introduce such a concept without being laughed at all the way to the asylum? Your best post yet Martin, IMO. Anyone who came along with something new on the planet got scoffed. When Bill Gates approached Alan Sugar for funding he laughed at him. He is pretty sorry now (or so he says). One of my concerns with the science theory is that there is MONEY to be made out of writing theory, if you can make it sound plausible. Before you take this out of context, i am not referring to the whole scientific community, but the few who shout loud, get listened to and get rich. In the presence of new theory which supersedes the old due to more considered thinking the way out is simply to say "it was the best we could come up with at the time". As science is inconclusive in its theory, why should it be any more credible than religion?, do consider i have already tackled the founding principle of evolutionary thinking on previous posts (written by me, not copyed from web sites). So you now know why it doesnt impress me, I have also questioned religion, I can find geological evidence to support some of it, but neither can be ultimately proven until a set of circumstance in the future can come around. That does not give science the right to rubbish any religious claims, which strangely enough ( I was amazed at this) all tell a very similar story. I am happy for everyone to believe their own, HOWEVER why should I sit quietly and be politically correct in this forum when someone rubbish's views or known history because they dont like it? only to find that person claims great knowledge but doesn't have it in reality, therefore they might be better keeping their hairy arsed statements to the "well its my opinion, not that I have any study on the subject in both directions" bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 In the past lots of people died at a much earlier age than they do now, is the fact that we now live longer due to evolution or science providing a means to fix people up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 In the past lots of people died at a much earlier age than they do now, is the fact that we now live longer due to evolution or science providing a means to fix people up? how about god giving scientists the means and the ingredients to cure the illnesses people suffer from helping them live longer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHanky Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 interesting post what i would want to know is what kind of miracle you would consider so beliveable that god exists - i've heard many people say what you have just said and they can't usually follow it up... in all honesty, to say people who cling onto religion are weak is very short sighted - what about people who blow them selves up in the name of religion, would you say they are scared of death? I liked the earlier mention in the thread (funny as it was ) about how God did something against the Egyptians after they had persecuted the Jews, and how millions of people (not just Jews) were left to be killed and mutilated by Hitler during the war. Maybe if God had intervened back then and punished Hitler etc I might of believed. But nothing happened and millions suffered because of it. Not just the people at the hands of the Germans but countless good people on both sides. The weakness is just my opinion. Thats all . Most of the people who blow themselves up in the name of religion are probably not scared (some will be im sure). But their faith is such that they often believe that they are going to a better place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I liked the earlier mention in the thread (funny as it was ) about how God did something against the Egyptians after they had persecuted the Jews, and how millions of people (not just Jews) were left to be killed and mutilated by Hitler during the war. Maybe if God had intervened back then and punished Hitler etc I might of believed. But nothing happened and millions suffered because of it. Not just the people at the hands of the Germans but countless good people on both sides. The weakness is just my opinion. Thats all . Most of the people who blow themselves up in the name of religion are probably not scared (some will be im sure). But their faith is such that they often believe that they are going to a better place. but if we followed gods given rules and regulations - we wont have conflict, war/suffering like we do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 bottom line is we'll all be dead in just under 100 years so we can talk about who was wrong then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHanky Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 but if we followed gods given rules and regulations - we wont have conflict, war/suffering like we do... You are absolutely correct. Even though I don't believe in God, I don't have a problem with the concept. If people want to believe in something then fair enough. The problem is people. People using religion to fight wars and influencing others into fighting for their religion. Likewise a lot of bad things have been done in the name of science. Crazy scientist people like Mengola who commit atrocities in the name of human development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHanky Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 bottom line is we'll all be dead in just under 100 years so we can talk about who was wrong then LOL, or we could just be dead Either way it doesn't really matter and all we can do is live our lives as best as possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 how about god giving scientists the means and the ingredients to cure the illnesses people suffer from helping them live longer? A valid option but why wait until now? Why make all those people suffer? What have "we" done to deserve this enhancement now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 how about god giving scientists the means and the ingredients to cure the illnesses people suffer from helping them live longer? So what about things like cancer and people getting run over by a car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 but if we followed gods given rules and regulations - we wont have conflict, war/suffering like we do... Doesn't that depend on which god you follow and rely on everyone in the world doing the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 for me.... the sun, the moon, and the earth being in such a perfect combination in order to sustain life is enough I couldn't disagree more. There are estimated 200 billion plus solar systems in our galaxy alone, it just happens that ours has the right conditions. The law of odds suggest with this kind of quantity that we were just lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I couldn't disagree more. There are estimated 200 billion plus solar systems in our galaxy alone, it just happens that ours has the right conditions. The law of odds suggest with this kind of quantity that we were just lucky. ESTIMATED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 ESTIMATED! OK, they know about 200 billion but are looking at even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 So what about things like cancer and people getting run over by a car? i didnt say i had all the answers ... getting run over by a car could be the conseqence of our own actions .... as for cancer - look at its causes - again in most cases a consqeuence of human action... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 OK, they know about 200 billion but are looking at even more. who is they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 zomg, nearly 300 posts from a thread about a film *checks thread starter* Oh, surprise!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 who is they? lol, sorry I don't know them personally just like you don't personally know who wrote the Koran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 i didnt say i had all the answers ... getting run over by a car could be the conseqence of our own actions .... as for cancer - look at its causes - again in most cases a consqeuence of human action... Well I guess you could also argue that the cause of death is living too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 i didnt say i had all the answers ... getting run over by a car could be the conseqence of our own actions .... as for cancer - look at its causes - again in most cases a consqeuence of human action... I wasn't really asking for a definite answer because I know one can't be given. Just trying to understand the way you view things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 One of my concerns with the science theory is that there is MONEY to be made out of writing theory, if you can make it sound plausible. Yeah, religion isn't about money is it? That's the last thing on the minds of those religious folk. but if we followed gods given rules and regulations - we wont have conflict, war/suffering like we do... What? like in the Middle East? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 lol, sorry I don't know them personally just like you don't personally know who wrote the Koran i do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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