Guest 2000VVTI Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Hi guys I dont know if this is the right section so if the mods see fit please move the thread. I have a technical question regarding my 2000 model VVti Supra, with everything stock on board appart from Intercooler and a catback exhaust system. I purchased a Greddy E manage Ultimate a few months ago, because my car had a annoying pinging problem, and i was told with tuning the workshop will be able to get rid of the pinging for me. Anyway the car was tuned at one of the workshops here in Adelaide, and after originally thinking it was fixed, i found out that the car was blowing black smoke during hi speed cruises. A few people complained i was gassing them out and i should get thr problem fixed. Anyway i sent the car to another peformance workshop and they told me the previous tuner didnt set things up right and that they have now setup everything including the boost cut and fixed the smoking problem. Yesterday we had a dyno day at another workshop and when my car went on the dyno after releasing the accelerator for the power run, the whole workshop was filled with smoke. I think there is to many incompetent tuners here in Adelaide, so what i want to ask is if there is any members on here who have had their late model VVTI tuned properly via a Greddy E manage ultimate, and if they would be kind enough to help another Supra owner whose car is suffering and running extremely rich with a MAP of their successful tuning so that i can load it directly into my E manage Ultimate. Sorry for the long post i hope someone can help quick smart. Hallo from Australia George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 I cant see anyone else's map working on your car, there is so many things that would be different it will never work, injectors, turbo, fuel pressure, compression, ic, exhaust, etc... all them will make a difference to the map:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Hello! The person to ask is our moderator for the technical section Ian C. He's got a fair bit of experience mapping the Emanage on members cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Yesterday we had a dyno day at another workshop and when my car went on the dyno after releasing the accelerator for the power run, the whole workshop was filled with smoke. Hi George! Smoke after releasing the acceleartor is not mapping, as no fuel is being injected if its fully on overrun. You're more likely looking at turbo oil seal problems, like Jake had recently. Smoke during high speed cruise may also be turbo oil seals as the car will be on boost a bit, but exhaust back pressure pre-turbine won't be very high so the pressure difference between the oil in the turbo housing and the exhaust turbine will mean that oil will leak into the exhaust. Under full power this won't happen as the pressure in the turbine housing will probably be as high or higher then oil pressure, stopping the leak. help another Supra owner whose car is suffering and running extremely rich with a MAP of their successful tuning so that i can load it directly into my E manage Ultimate. Are you sure its running excessively rich??? Wideband fitted or AFR plot??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2000VVTI Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Hmmmm ok well thats something to consider, i mean my car is pretty fresh its a pretty late model, so i didnt think it could be anything mechanical, but you never know i guess. I reckon ill need someone to look it over mechanically then. Thanks for the replies guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2000VVTI Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Oh and the mechanics at the dyno day told me the car was running rich, so did the previous two tuners that tuned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 What boost are you running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2000VVTI Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Around 14 psi due to the catback exhaust and intercooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 From what I've heard recently, when you start raising the boost from stock setting the ecu will put more fuel in to protect the engine. This is common with all the J spec cars. I've got the VVTI too and I've just fitted my AEM A/F gauge , when I'm running 1 bar( 14 psi ) it's running very rich too. It displays an AFR of 10:1 which is the gauge's lowest displayable reading so infact it could be worse. I turned the boost upto 1.2 bar ( 17psi ) , this will put more in air in but it's still showing 10.1 - 10.2 AFR. I've been told this is quite normal. I plan to fit the Emanage Ultimate in a few months , I'll probably ask our Techanical moderator Ian C if he can map it for me as he's done this on other members cars. He might be the person ask, I hope he doesn't mind me pointing you in his direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2000VVTI Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Well ill ask him to see if he minds but thats of great help . Yeh the problem is the tuners cant fix the running rich problem, thats why i bought the computer to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Hi George! Smoke after releasing the acceleartor is not mapping, as no fuel is being injected if its fully on overrun. You're more likely looking at turbo oil seal problems, like Jake had recently. Smoke during high speed cruise may also be turbo oil seals as the car will be on boost a bit, but exhaust back pressure pre-turbine won't be very high so the pressure difference between the oil in the turbo housing and the exhaust turbine will mean that oil will leak into the exhaust. Under full power this won't happen as the pressure in the turbine housing will probably be as high or higher then oil pressure, stopping the leak. Are you sure its running excessively rich??? Wideband fitted or AFR plot??? Does sound like turbo problems. What miles are on the car and is it warranted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Hi George, I had a 1998 VVTi on an EMB. Can I just check that you have a stock BOV? And that it is connected as it should have been from the factory. The reason I ask is because with a BOV venting to atmosphere you'll get a load of unburnt fuel out the exhaust on lift off...without tuning the EMU to stop it. PM me if you prefer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2000VVTI Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Ok the car has 46000km genuine on it. Everything is so fresh it is one of the cleanest street driven Supras in Australia. Ok as far as the blow off valve goes, it is exactly as it came out of the factory. I havent installed the HKS sequential in there yet. The car is back at the tuners today, and they promised they will nut the problem out, so ill see what happens. But i have told them what you guys have said and they will check if there is anything wrong with the above mentioned points. I also voiced my concerns that the original tuner only took half an hour to tune the Emanage. Im sorry but after reading at all the features that computer has it takes more than a half an hour to set everything up properly, at least from where i am standing. Thanks for your replies guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Really I need some datalogs of the odd behavious to see if it's down to the map or a mechanical fault. I *think* it can be sorted via the map. Black smoke is fuel, Blue smoke is oil. You say it's black so, I think it's the map at certain positions adding fuel when it shouldn't. Can you e-mail me your map? I'll PM you my e-mail addy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2000VVTI Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Ok here is the map of the tuning today. The car still stinks on petrol when ur just sitting at idle. The top line is the retune, the bottom lines are the previous tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 What's the line at the bottom? The next one up looks like AFR's which are ok for a BPU car...bit rich up top but it's not something that's going to hurt. Sound to me like they've messed up the map at idle and small throttle openings. I can probably sort it in 2mins given that map Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Can you extract and post up the map? We have seen symptoms of extremely badly mapped cars causing all sorts of issues. A 10 minute lookover by the right people here often highlight the obvious mistakes (if any). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 I turned the boost upto 1.2 bar ( 17psi ) , this will put more in air in but it's still showing 10.1 - 10.2 AFR. I've been told this is quite normal. I plan to fit the Emanage Ultimate in a few months AFR 10.. I had read that this can cause oil wash-out and damage.. quote CW i believe; maybe you wanna get it checked sooner rather than later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Ok here is the map of the tuning today. That's a lovely smooth power curve.. If only singles were like that! maybe in 3 years when VVT come out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 AFR 10.. I had read that this can cause oil wash-out and damage.. quote CW i believe; maybe you wanna get it checked sooner rather than later? 10's at full throttle wont do any damage...10's at idle cause damage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2000VVTI Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Well it looks like ill have access to the data logging from the computer this weekend so ill email it to you guys to have a quick look. Yeah the bottom graph is the way it was tuned initially and thats how rich it was running. The one above which has peaks and stuff is the AFR after tuning this morning. Its a lot better now with running into rich at full throttle. But before it was running below 9 because the dyno only reads down to about 9:1 ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Well it looks like ill have access to the data logging from the computer this weekend so ill email it to you guys to have a quick look. Yeah the bottom graph is the way it was tuned initially and thats how rich it was running. The one above which has peaks and stuff is the AFR after tuning this morning. Its a lot better now with running into rich at full throttle. But before it was running below 9 because the dyno only reads down to about 9:1 ratio. Have they replaced your Fuel Pressure Regualator and upped the pressure?? If not, then they have really messed the map up (originally). Looking much better now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2000VVTI Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 No nuthing mechanical has been changed. All they did was use the plug and play harness and just plugged the E manage in. Once it was plugged in, they threw it on the dyno and starting tuning. The mob yesterday afternoon after i got my car back said, the second tuner had wound up the ignition timing to far, so they pulled it back and took some fuel out of the map. But i reckon ill pull the map out and let you guys have a look this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 No nuthing mechanical has been changed. All they did was use the plug and play harness and just plugged the E manage in. Once it was plugged in, they threw it on the dyno and starting tuning. The mob yesterday afternoon after i got my car back said, the second tuner had wound up the ignition timing to far, so they pulled it back and took some fuel out of the map. But i reckon ill pull the map out and let you guys have a look this weekend. You don't need ANY additional timing...I'd Zero all that, you're on stock turbo's. Christ they really are trying to screw your engine up. But fortunately you have a friend saving your ass...the VVTI's Drive By Wire Throttle...it shuts the throttle when it detects knock. Please do send me that map!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2000VVTI Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Alex you have been of great help mate. I reckon i will do that immediately as soon as i can, the tuner is sposed to get in contact with me for this saturday but he hasnt rang me yet, so ill wait and see if not ill get my laptop and probably ask you how i can retreive the map myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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