DamanC Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Ok, the AEM AFR is all plumbed in Trouble is, i have no idea what all the numbers mean What should they be? As reference i am running upto 1.2BAR Im seeing numbers of 14.4ish to 15.2ish while just bimbleing about 35mph in 3rd (auto). This 14.4 ->15.2 oscillate's, takes just over a second to go from 14.4 to 15.2 and back to 14.4. This constantly repeats itself, is that normal? Also its been off the scale a couple of times, 18 (or what ever it is) plus, but only for split seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 What does it read on WOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPRALOOPY Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 15. is weak 10 is rich daman.. you need a good 11 on wot mate NOT 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Daman, the AFR will (mostly) change dependant on throttle position and RPM. If you're checking for your cars AFR's, it best to do so under high load and at 100% throttle. It'll be swining all over the place on normal driving but then thats not what these things are for. Try and get on a long motorway and in say 3rd gear (Auto), start at 3.5k rpm and read the rpm through the range. The point to really start reading it just when #2 starts to spool, in all cars with raised boost, it will start heading for the lean spot between 4.5-5k rpm, then get quickly richer as the rpm's increase. I've never heard of a properly running BPU go lean at high rpm, its the 4.5k rpm bit thats always a bit dodgy. Mine would normally be at 12.0 at 4.5k then quickly move to between 10.0 and 11.0 from 5k rpm to rev limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 The readings you're getting are perfectly okay. On full throttle at 1.2bar I'm getting 10:1 which is the norm for a J spec, just a little rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamanC Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 Is WOT the reading that matters rather than pooting around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letmeshowyou Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamanC Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 I suppose i had better go out and use the loud pedal then PS I have something for you Adi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letmeshowyou Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 nice one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPRALOOPY Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 daman you should get my pressie on monday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamanC Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 Cool, nice one Dave . Ill upload em now Adi......PM will be on its way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 The readings you're getting are perfectly okay. On full throttle at 1.2bar I'm getting 10:1 which is the norm for a J spec, just a little rich. 10 is as far as the gauge goes so could be way too rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPRALOOPY Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 10 is as far as the gauge goes so could be way too rich or shall i buy one new ???? what are your plans mate?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Closed loop controls much of what happens at cruise/town driving...it will swing about from 13's-15's. A stock TT will go off the scale rich, but that's A) because the AFR gauges don't have a wide enough range. B) cause Toyota designed it that way...and they arn't wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 or shall i buy one new ???? what are your plans mate?? Dont know. Not sure what the plans are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 10 is as far as the gauge goes so could be way too rich Yep, I'm getting 10.1 , 10.2 etc now and again so I'm hoping this is okay. Can anything be done to make it run slighly less rich at WOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Yep, I'm getting 10.1 , 10.2 etc now and again so I'm hoping this is okay. Can anything be done to make it run slighly less rich at WOT? Limitations of the JDM map sensor (1.0 Bar), you can iron out the problem with Emanage blue or similar. Most have been running like this for years with no sign of any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 The JDM sensor reads to 1.2bar Second time I've had to mention that now. You can get a lot of power back by pulling fuel out on a BPU Supra, and you can fix the lean spot at the transition - which, at BPU levels of boost, can cause a couple of snaps of det when you go through it. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Supra, and you can fix the lean spot at the transition - which, at BPU levels of boost, can cause a couple of snaps of det when you go through it. -Ian Which you want to avoid!! The ideal option is to fit a programmable piggyback system such as either blue or ultimate emanage, or a fuel controler such as a SAFC; det cans so you can map to avoid detonation, and a long stretch of road (or even better a dyno)!! It helps to have a friend in the pass seat to do the number changing on the laptop or whatever, or if you really trust them let them drive You want to map the full load under steady state, slow acceleration and fast acceleration. Doing steady state first is probably best then check the other two, and modify the acceleration maps if required. Allow steady state to stabilise for about 30 seconds at each rpm site to ensure temperatures & pressures have stabilised. I have been known to use the breaks to enable steady state.... but don't do it!! It wrecks them fast! One of these is more preferable. I've used one and they would be ideal for our purposes http://www.dynomotive.com/towing.html Without a dyno it is impossible to do steady state on the road above XXX rpm, so move onto acceleration tuning once you can't do steady state! Change the fuelling until you get around 10.2 to 10.5:1 afr's, then try leaning it out. Its not really worth playing with the ignition timing without a dyno as you need to adjust both the timing and the fuelling until you get mean best torque (MBT) with lowest specific fuel consumption (SFC) avoiding detonation. With a dyno, map to detonation borderline (DBL) -1 degrees (DBL-1) if you have control of ignition timing & fuelling, by adjusting the timing. DBL is a crack of knock heard every second or so. Do this at rich-ish fuelling first, then lean off the fuelling slightly and re-swing the timing both plus and minus watching how the torque responds. Keep at DBL-1 at all times for safety. Once the steady state mapping is done (if possible on the dyno) then move onto transient mapping and adjust the acceleration maps. Takes lots of dyno time (5+ hours?) to populate all the maps, but it is a much better way of doing it than on the road. Check it on the road after as dynos are notorious for not being real world conditions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 5th gear provides good steady state representative loads, as long as the driver doesn't mind doing 140mph However I find with most Supra owners... they don't mind Ignition timing can take hours to do on a dyno indeed, but you are looking at diminishing returns as you tweak away. On the road you can get very good results simply by advancing the timing and doing a run. Find the det point and back off by 3 to 5deg. Plenty safe and you'll never notice a couple of degrees timing when you are driving. With a decent AFR and the timing backed off a good way from maximum loonyness you are covered as much as possible for all environmental conditions. That's my opinion anyway -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 So on say stock 440's running upto 1.2bar, would it be a worthwhile investment to purchase a SAFC II to trim the stock fuelling back then? Would any gains be noticeable and could you tweak it to richen it up during transistion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 So on say stock 440's running upto 1.2bar, would it be a worthwhile investment to purchase a SAFC II to trim the stock fuelling back then? Would any gains be noticeable and could you tweak it to richen it up during transistion? Weeeelllll... You could do some stuff with an AFC but I like the large amount of load sites that an E-Manage gives you, because the transition point is sensitive to light, part, near full, and full throttle, and also what boost those throttle positions give (i.e. what gear you are in/how much load there is on the engine). The E-Manage's own MAP sensor helps greatly for that as well. But then I could be considered biased -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 And what about running around without any management apart from what Mr T intended in ignorant bliss? What are the likely consequences of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Doug, have you got any dyno sheets of your car running at BPU? Not for the power, but because dyno's usually print the AFR's on the sheet at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Well, you use up a lot of fuel and lose a lot of power. You may cause some real long term problems due to overfuelling and the occasional ping. An injector may fail if you drive it hard because it's constantly locked open. Can't say I've heard of many of these problems occurring though -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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