SimonB Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Quick one, Gamer or Supragold, am I right in thinking the stock airbox doesn't normally fit with the FMIC though as it fouls on the left drivers side pipe? There's no problem using the stock airbox with a FMIC. The piping uses the same basic path as the stock SMIC piping - they both go through the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Ben, I bought more than I need from that group buy on the autobox coolers, let me know if Steve cannot supply you with one and I will let you have one of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.weeks Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 Cheers Gamer - Steve may indeed have one - what were you intending to do with 6?! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris and Alana Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Cheers Sheefa - have messaged. OK, think that pretty much sorts out the components required for my BPU (you've probably guessed I'm going for BPU + FMIC) :-) If you're interested, the list is as follows (for a J-spec auto): Spark Plugs (0.032") (copper or iridium plug)* D-Cat (Midpipe and Downpipe)* GReddy Boost Cut Controller, £100 HKS Speed Limit Defencer, £112 Envy 1.2 Bar Restrictor Ring for J-spec Supra De-cat, £15 HKS Front-Mounted Intercooler Type S, £822 Walbro Uprated Fuel Pump (GSS341-400-762), £450 HKS Fuel Cut Defender, £112 Aem High Volume Fuel Filter, £31 Fluidyne Aluminum Radiator, £495 Fluidyne Extra HD 9 Row Transmission Coolers, £??? * off topic - but can anyone recommend brands for these? Do the prices seem along the right lines? Have I missed anything stupid? (DEFI EGT and Boost gauges coming from Nic's group buy). The 'GReddy Boost Cut Controller, £100' and the 'HKS Fuel Cut Defender, £112' are the same thing are they not. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 The 'GReddy Boost Cut Controller, £100' and the 'HKS Fuel Cut Defender, £112' are the same thing are they not. . . Yep, they both do the same job. If you're gonna buy and wire in one of those + a speed cut defencer, why not buy a MAP2 ECU which will do both these functions and allow you to remap fuelling / timing to get the most out of your mods. It can also act as a boost controller which is another nice feature... Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 I keep hearing people mention about not having proper airflow/ increased temps when using an FMIC over the magical/mystical CW SMIC. Well I say it is all poppy-cock. I ran the Do-Luck nose with no extra ducting as the FMIC sat flush apart from a carbon fibre top cooling plate, an aircon rad and the Fluidyne rad and never once did I ever have any overheating problems. Sat in summertime temp traffic jams, never had a problem... Not this old chestnut again! It all depends on what you're planning to do with your car. For normal driving, I'm sure a FMIC with any kind of radiator will be fine. Same goes for 1/4 milers, dyno queens and high speed runs. Where you're going to want maximum cooling is on a track. This is where a FMIC is more likely to be a hindrance than a help. So really unless you're going to be doing circuit driving, where the top speeds aren't particularly high, but you'll be at WOT for 20-30 minutes at a time, then go for a FMIC. If I were going for a SMIC, (and I have) then I would go for the CW one as the build quality is very good, and the internals are spot on to what they should be. The last time we discussed this, wasn't Jamie P going to do a track day in his car, and was going to report back if he had any cooling issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Not this old chestnut again! It all depends on what you're planning to do with your car. quote] Sure there are good and bad stories on both sides as always ... however why spend £500 to mend something that aint broke...? I would only stay SMIC now with BPU...as I fitted a 'too restrictive' FMIC on mine and it completely cocked up the air flow - even on normal driving -and the performance suffered (same one as Ash had on his...same result ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.weeks Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 Yep, they both do the same job. If you're gonna buy and wire in one of those + a speed cut defencer, why not buy a MAP2 ECU which will do both these functions and allow you to remap fuelling / timing to get the most out of your mods. It can also act as a boost controller which is another nice feature... Cheers, Brian. I've just been looking through the receipts and found the previous owner had purchased a TRL Voltage Fuel Cut Controller. I'm going to have a poke around the car this morning and find out what else has been done to it - not sure why you would buy a FCC without doing other mods ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.weeks Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 Yep, they both do the same job. If you're gonna buy and wire in one of those + a speed cut defencer, why not buy a MAP2 ECU which will do both these functions and allow you to remap fuelling / timing to get the most out of your mods. It can also act as a boost controller which is another nice feature... Cheers, Brian. Sounds like a good idea ... would this allow "overboosting" (scramble boost)? Can you recommend any makes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.weeks Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 Sounds like a good idea ... would this allow "overboosting" (scramble boost)? Can you recommend any makes? PS I would probably want to go for a replacement ECU rather than a piggy back system - note that may car is an auto (and would probably want a manual conversion at _some_ point). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Not this old chestnut again! It all depends on what you're planning to do with your car. Sure ... however why spend £500 to mend something that aint broke...? I would only stay SMIC now with BPU...as I fitted a 'too restrictive' FMIC on mine and it completely cocked up the air flow - even on normal driving -and the performance suffered (same one as Ash had on his...same result ) I'm not sure if I follow you Paul? The guy is asking which to go for, so are you saying stick with his stock SMIC as it's "not broke"? Or are you saying that as many people have FMIC's then as a concept it works and not to faff about? When you say the performance suffered, how did it suffer exactly? I'm interested as I've possibly got a "restrictive" SMIC on my install, and would like to know what I should be looking out for. Cheers, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Sounds like a good idea ... would this allow "overboosting" (scramble boost)? Can you recommend any makes? Makes of what? The MAP2 ECU (a piggyback) can control boost via a GM boost solenoid you can buy with it for not much extra. Total cost around £400 You can hook up a boggo standard dash mounted switch to the MAP2 to switch between primary and secondary maps... in this scenario you could have primary optimised for 0.9 bar boost and secondary optimised for 1.25 bar boost. Then you can flick between them just by pressing the switch... the good thing is primary and secondary are a complete set of tables so again you can optimise fuelling and timing for the boost level. Also, the MAP2 will cope fine if you wanna fit a big single turbo and larger injectors - just remap the tables to compensate. Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 PS I would probably want to go for a replacement ECU rather than a piggy back system - note that may car is an auto (and would probably want a manual conversion at _some_ point). Your options are limited with an auto. Replacement ECU's: 1. AEM - Unproven, reports of damagingly high autobox line pressures. 2. HKS FCON V - Expensive to buy and expensive to map at HKS pro dealers only. Also the customer is 'locked out' and can't tweak it themselves. The tendency is to run it in piggyback mode iirc on autos so the stock ECU takes care of the autobox side of things. You can't use an Apexi Power FC as those are for manuals only. Most people with an auto go piggyback and the most proven (and expensive) route is the Emanage Ultimate with all the harnesses. It can't do boost control so you still have the cost of a controller on top if you don't just wanna rely on a restrictor ring or intend to change to a single turbo and control boost. My favoured route is the MAP2 because it does the same functions of the EMU plus boost control and comes in a fair bit cheaper. It is as yet unproven though, I'm in the process of getting mine up and running with a MAP2 just now so am enduring a little pain... I'll be road mapping it myself once ready and will then take it to the strip to see how much I can take off my times with it and a FMIC added. To see the benefit of the FMIC alone I can load my base map back onto the MAP2 which will just have the OEM Map sensor voltage outputs populated for OEM fuelling. Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 1. AEM - Unproven, reports of damagingly high autobox line pressures. Blimey that's a bit old school isn't it? Those issues were sorted quite a while ago. The general opinion now, it that any existing issues are generally down to poor mapping. You also forgot the Motec and Autronic EMS's. Whilst both of these are expensive, they're both top end units. My personal opinion, having gone down the AEM route and being one it's biggest supporters on here very early on, if I were to do it all again would be to go Motec. Having had a play with the software on the Motec, I would say it's better than the AEM, is better known in the UK than the Autronic, and doesn't have the "HKS dealer only mapping" tag that the FCon does. The downside to the Motec, is as mentioned, it's expensive. So really it depends on how much you want to spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Blimey that's a bit old school isn't it? Those issues were sorted quite a while ago. The general opinion now, it that any existing issues are generally down to poor mapping. Yeah probably it's just something that's always stuck in my mind about the AEM with autos. Are there people on this forum running a JDM auto with AEM without problems now? I ask because the cars I can think of running AEM are manuals or manual conversions, including yours. I thought about the Autronic but it just doesn't seem a popular choice now so didn't mention it, off the top of my head I can remember Terry's purple car ran one and there were several issues to get it right and that was a manual. I can't think of anyone running an Autronic / JDM auto combo?? The Motec I plain forgot about (blonde moment, d'oh!) and yes it's probably the best option but only if you're willing to pay for it. Again though, who has ran / is running one with a JDM auto? Joe? Or was / is he AEM? I remember him having many autobox problems and going manual in the end though.... Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 I wouldnt fit a Do Luck bumper without the FMIC, it'd just look weird My 11 year old Toyota SMIC was fine for 30+ minutes of WOT track driving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Yeah probably it's just something that's always stuck in my mind about the AEM with autos. Are there people on this forum running a JDM auto with AEM without problems now? I ask because the cars I can think of running AEM are manuals or manual conversions, including yours. I thought about the Autronic but it just doesn't seem a popular choice now so didn't mention it, off the top of my head I can remember Terry's purple car ran one and there were several issues to get it right and that was a manual. I can't think of anyone running an Autronic / JDM auto combo?? The Motec I plain forgot about (blonde moment, d'oh!) and yes it's probably the best option but only if you're willing to pay for it. Again though, who has ran / is running one with a JDM auto? Joe? Or was / is he AEM? I remember him having many autobox problems and going manual in the end though.... Cheers, Brian. The Motec was running with the BL Autobox with no problem. It was the autobox itself that was giving me issues. Nothing to do with the ECU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 My 11 year old Toyota SMIC was fine for 30+ minutes of WOT track driving It's not the IC that's in question with regards to track driving, it's the coolant temps when using a FMIC on the track. Plus I would doubt very much that many people would notice the 20-30 bhp difference between an efficient IC, and a mullered one. Especially as the difference would come in gradually as the IC became heat soaked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 The Motec was running with the BL Autobox with no problem. It was the autobox itself that was giving me issues. Nothing to do with the ECU PM'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 I'm not sure if I follow you Paul? The guy is asking which to go for, so are you saying stick with his stock SMIC as it's "not broke"? Or are you saying that as many people have FMIC's then as a concept it works and not to faff about? When you say the performance suffered, how did it suffer exactly? I'm interested as I've possibly got a "restrictive" SMIC on my install, and would like to know what I should be looking out for. Cheers, Tony I fitted a very restrictive FMIC - prob equivalent to a four row - and the resultant air flow restriction to the radiator caused temps to rocket. (I tried everything from raising the hood at the windscreen to ducting and new radiator...) Frankly I should have taken the damn thing out rather than try and 'make it work'... IMHO If you are not going for big power then stick with the stock SMIC (if this is knackered then, and again IMHO, by all means get a cheap SMIC to replace it - as these perform better then a knackered stock...or go CW's which are excellent by the looks) The alternative may be a thinner FMIC (perhaps a two row...like the Greddy or Hybrid ones?) that let air get to the radiator... If you want the look of an FMIC - then just mesh the do-luck front with good S/S mesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.weeks Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 OK, attached are two pics of my SMIC and radiator - do they look they they need replacing to you? They're not particularly rusted, just dented front stones I think. (Looks like I'll probably get a new intercooler anyway - but just wondering if the radiator for example should also be replaced - or whether it can wait). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I fitted a very restrictive FMIC - prob equivalent to a four row - and the resultant air flow restriction to the radiator caused temps to rocket. (I tried everything from raising the hood at the windscreen to ducting and new radiator...) Frankly I should have taken the damn thing out rather than try and 'make it work'... IMHO If you are not going for big power then stick with the stock SMIC (if this is knackered then, and again IMHO, by all means get a cheap SMIC to replace it - as these perform better then a knackered stock...or go CW's which are excellent by the looks) The alternative may be a thinner FMIC (perhaps a two row...like the Greddy or Hybrid ones?) that let air get to the radiator... If you want the look of an FMIC - then just mesh the do-luck front with good S/S mesh! Ahhhh OK, you meant airflow through to the rad, I was talking about airflow through the core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 OK, attached are two pics of my SMIC and radiator - do they look they they need replacing to you? They're not particularly rusted, just dented front stones I think. (Looks like I'll probably get a new intercooler anyway - but just wondering if the radiator for example should also be replaced - or whether it can wait). I think it actually looks pretty OK. A lot better than my old one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 OK, attached are two pics of my SMIC and radiator - do they look they they need replacing to you? They're not particularly rusted, just dented front stones I think. (Looks like I'll probably get a new intercooler anyway - but just wondering if the radiator for example should also be replaced - or whether it can wait). Run a finger across the fins (horizontally). Do they feel soft and squash or crumble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.weeks Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 They feel quite soft and bend under pressure - not crumbling as such, just buckling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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