b.weeks Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Hi All, On first insight I thought it would simply be best when going BPU to have a FMIC. However, on reading up a little (on here) it seems that a SMIC is actually better when you have a regular bumper because it's been designed to go there for best airflow (from the bumper) and allow air to pass to the radiator. However, I intend to fit a Do-Luck front bumper - therefore, the airflow is changed. Can anyone recommend what is best for a BPU car with a Do-Luck front - FMIC or SMIC? Cheers, Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazz1 Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 id go for the FMIC more airflow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesmark Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I would still go for a smic for BPU. FMIC restricts the air flow iirc. For me a smic is more than enough. Some say go for it some say don't its your choice I know myself that I would only go for a fmic if I was going single, or I want it for looks to say wow look at that but that does not interest me cause iirc fmic offers no real advantage in the performance its just eye candy that is hidden by the bumper anyway, you mave to also relocate a few things too so can be a pain. It would depend how much the airflow is affected with the do luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 You are correct in saying that the SMIC works very well with the stock bumper but as you are fitting an aftermarket bumper I reckon it probably doesn't matter what you use. You aren't going to be able to have the same kind of ducted set-up so the air is going to flow where it wants to not where you'd like it to go. SMIC or FMIC, the air will take the easiest course. Probably around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supragold Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 You are correct in saying that the SMIC works very well with the stock bumper but as you are fitting an aftermarket bumper I reckon it probably doesn't matter what you use. You aren't going to be able to have the same kind of ducted set-up so the air is going to flow where it wants to not where you'd like it to go. SMIC or FMIC, the air will take the easiest course. Probably around them. I disagree with that last comment mate. If your fitting a Do-luck bumper the FMIC fits perfectly in the centre section and, well, there just isn't anywhere else for the air to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris and Alana Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I just changed my old SMIC for a Miami GT SMIC, I also had this debate and wanted the looks of the FMIC but took everyones advice that a SMIC is more than sufficient for a BPU car. I have a top secret front so I took an original SMIC air duct and modified it to fit the top secret bumper so the air has to pass through the intercooler, worked for me. When I asked the same question most people said that a FMIC is just overkill and would be more laggy than having a new SMIC and seen as I was more interested in having the car running to its best rather than blingy (they do look nice though) I opted for the SMIC and it does its job perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I disagree with that last comment mate. If your fitting a Do-luck bumper the FMIC fits perfectly in the centre section and, well, there just isn't anywhere else for the air to go. AGREE ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Well, I had a good condition stock SMIC and switched to a GReddy 3-Row FMIC, still with standard front bumper. The car feels much more 'alive' with the FMIC on...... I'm at BPU'ish level. I'll have times and terminals to back this up shortly.... on SMIC I ran a 12.51 @ 109 MPH. Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I have a chris wilson side mount intercooler which i find fantastic so no way i was going to get rid of it when i changed to a do luck front bumper last week. I spent a day making a custom shroud based on the original shroud for the standard bumper and using some thin plastic very much like the kind used in the under trays i made the correct shapes using some air tools and heat. Here is a pic i just went and took but can't see much without bumper off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I disagree with that last comment mate. If your fitting a Do-luck bumper the FMIC fits perfectly in the centre section and, well, there just isn't anywhere else for the air to go. So, it has proper, sealed ducting that'll fit whichever FMIC one might buy and the air cannot go around it instead of through it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I have a chris wilson side mount intercooler which i find fantastic... I am in no doubt that this an excellent bit of kit but for the other newbies can you confirm what exactly you find fantastic about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Just been having a look back at some old threads. The last paragraph of Ian's post sums it up. A decent SMIC would run a small single, as mentioned. A stocker or a CW one. There was an interesting article in Japanese Performance recently where they tested different intercoolers on a Scooby. Not massively relevant to us perhaps but it had one very salient point, in that an el cheapo Ebay nailed-together intercooler was worse than a used stocker. It actually lost power and increased the chances of det with hotter intake charges. The photos of the internal design showed it using some very clunky bar-and-plate design instead of the dense finned stuff the OEM and pukka aftermarket ones use. The welds were chunky and the end tank designs were very angular. I've seen two types of intercooler for the MkIV that use the same design as this and I'd avoid both like the plague because of it. If you go for an FMIC then there are three things you need. Ducting, a decent radiator, and ducting. The ducting doesn't have to be too mad, it doesn't have to be airtight but it needs to funnel the air through the intercooler and then through the rad, so leave in the undertray, stick in a top rad panel, put something either side of the entry to the FMICs fins, keep the foam around the rad, it's cowling, and the viscous fan. -Ian and this thread is interesting too. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=69792 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I am in no doubt that this an excellent bit of kit but for the other newbies can you confirm what exactly you find fantastic about it? The CW Smic i find fantastic due to its very efficient design. Uses a very good light alloy core that has a better tube and fine design than standard. Its situted in a place that is not prone to thermal heatsoak from the radiator at the front of the car. Is alot lighter than a Big FMIC also. There are no fitment issues like having to move water tanks and buyer better radiators due to restriction in airflow which the FMIC can create. Fitting to a standard bumper or a aftermarket is OEM even though i recommend ducting like i have on aftermarket bumpers. The intecooler is only of a size to really cool charged air till around 550 bhp depending on turbo used and then a bigger decent design FMIC would be needed. Im going to be running this intercooler with a GT4088 and looking to only run 1bar - 1.2bar so im sure will do a good job. The only other thing i am going to do to my cw smic is fit a spal fan behind the intercooler to help stop the intercooler from heat soaking in the summer when sat at idle for a while. Is common with every intercooler. HTH Now reply to my pm colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.weeks Posted March 24, 2007 Author Share Posted March 24, 2007 Cheers for the informative postings. OK, so looks like when I get a Do-Luck, I have to decide if I'm likely to go single within the lifetime of the intercooler (how long do these last?!). If so, I should go FMIC, if not, SMIC. With whatever I go, I should sort out ducting so that airflow is "pushed" through the intercooler - can anyone recommend a body shop to do fitting of the Do-Luck with ducting? (I'm based in Cambridge - I recall there being somewhere recommend in Milton Keynes, but forget there name). I have been looking at the HKS and/or Greddy 3-Row intercoolers at Envy. Can anyone recommend where to get a new radiator (Toyota?)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Cheers for the informative postings. OK, so looks like when I get a Do-Luck, I have to decide if I'm likely to go single within the lifetime of the intercooler (how long do these last?!). If so, I should go FMIC, if not, SMIC. With whatever I go, I should sort out ducting so that airflow is "pushed" through the intercooler - can anyone recommend a body shop to do fitting of the Do-Luck with ducting? (I'm based in Cambridge - I recall there being somewhere recommend in Milton Keynes, but forget there name). I have been looking at the HKS and/or Greddy 3-Row intercoolers at Envy. Can anyone recommend where to get a new radiator (Toyota?)? You will not need any extra ducting for the Do-Luck, maybe just a few strips of foam if you are really anal about it. Honestly if the FMIC is installed properly then it should sit flush with the Do-luck nose and need no further ducting. As far as the new rad is concerned just get yourself a Fluidyne and you will be fine. If you are using an autobox, make sure you also get a Fluidyne (or other make) transmission cooler, preferably with an active fan. I keep hearing people mention about not having proper airflow/ increased temps when using an FMIC over the magical/mystical CW SMIC. Well I say it is all poppy-cock. I ran the Do-Luck nose with no extra ducting as the FMIC sat flush apart from a carbon fibre top cooling plate, an aircon rad and the Fluidyne rad and never once did I ever have any overheating problems. Sat in summertime temp traffic jams, never had a problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supragold Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 You will not need any extra ducting for the Do-Luck, maybe just a few strips of foam if you are really anal about it. Honestly if the FMIC is installed properly then it should sit flush with the Do-luck nose and need no further ducting. As far as the new rad is concerned just get yourself a Fluidyne and you will be fine. If you are using an autobox, make sure you also get a Fluidyne (or other make) transmission cooler, preferably with an active fan. I keep hearing people mention about not having proper airflow/ increased temps when using an FMIC over the magical/mystical CW SMIC. Well I say it is all poppy-cock. I ran the Do-Luck nose with no extra ducting as the FMIC sat flush apart from a carbon fibre top cooling plate, an aircon rad and the Fluidyne rad and never once did I ever have any overheating problems. Sat in summertime temp traffic jams, never had a problem... I'm exactly the same mate. Not once have I had overheating problems either. No ducting required at all and I have had both Blitz and HKS FMIC's fitted with the Do-luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.weeks Posted March 24, 2007 Author Share Posted March 24, 2007 Cheers Gamer. My thoughts are leaning towards the FMIC - as this is presumably better if they're used for singles. Do any other components need to be relocated for the FMIC and Fluidyne rad? I note you went for the Blitz FMIIC - any particular reason for that one over the Greddy or HKS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I keep hearing people mention about not having proper airflow/ increased temps when using an FMIC over the magical/mystical CW SMIC. Well I say it is all poppy-cock. I ran the Do-Luck nose with no extra ducting as the FMIC sat flush apart from a carbon fibre top cooling plate, an aircon rad and the Fluidyne rad and never once did I ever have any overheating problems. Sat in summertime temp traffic jams, never had a problem... I think folk mean that with an unducted FMIC on aftermarket bumper and stock rad Joe. Well ducted FMIC and Fluidyne or other aftermarket Rad should work well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Cheers Gamer. My thoughts are leaning towards the FMIC - as this is presumably better if they're used for singles. Do any other components need to be relocated for the FMIC and Fluidyne rad? I note you went for the Blitz FMIIC - any particular reason for that one over the Greddy or HKS? Some FMIC kits come with the components necessary for installation. IIIRC, the HKS FMIC's come with a PS cooler relocation kit. I am not sure if anything is needed for the Greddy FMIC. Nothing is needed for the Fluidyne rad install unless you have an auto Supra, in which case you need an aftermarket autobox cooler. I did not personally choose the Blitz FMIC mate, that came with the car when I purchased it from CJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supragold Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I had a blitz when i bought the car but when i fitted the Do-luck there was a small gap at the bottom of the ducting from the bumper because my Blitz sat a little higher than the HKS one I now have. From my experience I recommend HKS over Blitz. Fits perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheefa Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Yep, I have the Greddy 2-Row and it works a treat. Quick one, Gamer or Supragold, am I right in thinking the stock airbox doesn't normally fit with the FMIC though as it fouls on the left drivers side pipe? Saw your car at Turbofit today too Joe, coming along nicely mate and really pleased to see the engine hasn't been damaged. Just a bent cam as Greg showed me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.weeks Posted March 24, 2007 Author Share Posted March 24, 2007 OK - sounds like a good recommendation to me :-) Is that the HKS Type R or Type S? I believe the Type R is rated to high BHP figures so presumably a Type S is sufficient to BPU standards. Gamer - can you recommend an after market autobox cooler? The ARC Basic Diff and Transmission Oil Cooler seems expensive at 1k. Almost worth just getting a 6-speed manual conversion! :-) (Any excuse!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheefa Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 OK - sounds like a good recommendation to me :-) Is that the HKS Type R or Type S? I believe the Type R is rated to high BHP figures so presumably a Type S is sufficient to BPU standards. Gamer - can you recommend an after market autobox cooler? The ARC Basic Diff and Transmission Oil Cooler seems expensive at 1k. Almost worth just getting a 6-speed manual conversion! :-) (Any excuse!) The MKIVStore Fluidyne one will be plenty for BPU mate. Even better, get one of these like I have done from K14SUP (Steve) as per here: http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=93598&highlight=TRANSMISSION+COOLER It's easy to fit, especially if you fabricate a bracket to fit at the back of your FMIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.weeks Posted March 24, 2007 Author Share Posted March 24, 2007 Cheers Sheefa - have messaged. OK, think that pretty much sorts out the components required for my BPU (you've probably guessed I'm going for BPU + FMIC) :-) If you're interested, the list is as follows (for a J-spec auto): Spark Plugs (0.032") (copper or iridium plug)* D-Cat (Midpipe and Downpipe)* GReddy Boost Cut Controller, £100 HKS Speed Limit Defencer, £112 Envy 1.2 Bar Restrictor Ring for J-spec Supra De-cat, £15 HKS Front-Mounted Intercooler Type S, £822 Walbro Uprated Fuel Pump (GSS341-400-762), £450 HKS Fuel Cut Defender, £112 Aem High Volume Fuel Filter, £31 Fluidyne Aluminum Radiator, £495 Fluidyne Extra HD 9 Row Transmission Coolers, £??? * off topic - but can anyone recommend brands for these? Do the prices seem along the right lines? Have I missed anything stupid? (DEFI EGT and Boost gauges coming from Nic's group buy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supragold Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 OK - sounds like a good recommendation to me :-) Is that the HKS Type R or Type S? I believe the Type R is rated to high BHP figures so presumably a Type S is sufficient to BPU standards. Gamer - can you recommend an after market autobox cooler? The ARC Basic Diff and Transmission Oil Cooler seems expensive at 1k. Almost worth just getting a 6-speed manual conversion! :-) (Any excuse!) My intercooler piping goes straight down through the engine bay from the turbo instead of through the wing but I'm single. Type s will be fine for BPU but if your ever thinking of going further buy the type r now. I was BPU for a while but bought overkill so if i ever decided to go further (and i did) i wouldn't need to replace parts again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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