bolarbag Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Right as I'm preparing to go single in late summer I want to start looking at my fuel system which all going well will be ordered next month As I'm running the Aem Ems, I've heard I'm restricted to High Impedance injectors without installing a resistor pack, My aim is 600rwhp, running stock internals(for a few months), 264/264 cams, not entirely decided on the turbo as of yet, it has to be responsive will full boost coming in around 4-4500, so what type of injectors and what size do you recommend, Top Feed on either a HKS Fuel Rail or PHR High Impedance 800cc?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 If I was to do it all again I would go for HKS TO4Z turbo with at least 800cc injectors in a rail, I would also get the engine build thought about as 600 RWHP is quite some stress on a stock engine but not impossible I understand Look forward to the replies on this and other turbo suggestions I think full boost at 4500 is quite late on if you look at Jamiep's and Jonty's new set ups and they are at the 600 bhp level, in fact they reduced power for drivability and low rev torque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I am going along the same lines as yourself and was thinking about this size (until some knowledgable person comes along and says different) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Think I will be going for the GT4088 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 You could get some PE 800cc for the stock rail and not worry about any resister packs and changing the rail. A T67 might be a good choice to get close to your goals. The HKS setups are very expensive and I think you pay for the name. 600rwhp is alot of power. What sort of boost are you looking to run? HKS264/264 is a good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I agree the HKS set ups are expensive, but I have a TO4R now and have owned a TO4Z on a skyline and they are great turbo's with fantastic spool up, always was a bit of a label guy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Other option might be a Garrett GT35 turbo, as I said earlier 600rwhp is alot. What are you planning on using the car for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 You'll need something a fair bit bigger than a GT35R for 600rwhp. Doubt you'd make that with a T67 either, or a GT4088. You're not going to get full boost by 4K either (although this of course depends on which gear you're talking about). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 4088 should do the trick. Full boost comes round pretty damn quick as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 4088 should do the trick. Full boost comes round pretty damn quick as well From what I have read/seen seems to be the one I want - not really looking for any particular BHP figure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Jamie called me not long ago to say he made over 600bhp today but with a little help from a friend called NOS But that's still fly not rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 I would rather change the fuel rail just now so I'm not restricted in the future, and my engine has only done 55K miles, been well serviced as far as I know over here, I dont think it would last very long at that sort of power but it would be capable of, for the time being. The T04Z was my original ideal choice but because there are so many to choose from I am totally undecided now, there are so many opinions that differ from manufacturer to turbo type and size its becoming rather mind boggling. The T04Z maybe slightly too big for what I'm after because after driving the car a while I think I'm gonna wanna tone it down a bit, get the rebuild and just focus on response, which will probably mean changing the injectors again...which I dont mind as long as it is just them rather than the whole fuel system. But for now with my current setup would 800cc - 850cc be the ideal choice for say a turbo like the T04Z running like 1.4bar? Is the stock block even capable of running 1.4bar with a turbo like a T04Z? An attempt will be made at lowering the compression ratios with a bigger head gasket but would that be enough for a few months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 From what I have read/seen seems to be the one I want - not really looking for any particular BHP figure I start to make boost at around 2300rpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I start to make boost at around 2300rpm Yea, think I saw that in another thread somewhere, it was one of the deciders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 Isnt 600bhp at the fly a little discouraging after having a full rebuild AND Nos? In rwhp terms thats what about 520bhp on a 6spd manual? Which dont get me wrong is bloomin quick but I would have thought that would be achievable without the laughing gas. I wanna have the 600to play with for a bit then as I say tone it down, to probably about the above figure, maybe even less if I'm going on a track... How do I know that the injectors I buy are gonna be running at the optimum 85-90% duty cycle, is there a formula for achieving this? Oh I would like a turbo that does make boost pretty early but achieves full boost as I say at around the 4500 - 5000mark, would this be MORE achievable running the turbo at 1.2bar or 1.4bar? I expect it would be the 1.2bar? p.s its not an everyday car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 The T04Z is rated to around 800BHP, but to run at 600 with this is not pushing it too hard, I may be wrong (not the first time) but it is better to aim for a BHP figure that is not at the limits of the turbo you want I ran he T04Z with a built engine and 1000cc injectors and made 735 BHP at the HUBS, this was all we could get on 97 ron fuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Isnt 600bhp at the fly a little discouraging after having a full rebuild AND Nos? In rwhp terms thats what about 520bhp on a 6spd manual? Which dont get me wrong is bloomin quick but I would have thought that would be achievable without the laughing gas. I wanna have the 600to play with for a bit then as I say tone it down, to probably about the above figure, maybe even less if I'm going on a track... How do I know that the injectors I buy are gonna be running at the optimum 85-90% duty cycle, is there a formula for achieving this? Would i be wrong in saying you've not been out in 500+ rwhp supra yet?? This i belive Jamie said was only at 1.4bar too, so more still available. Not sure the nos shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Jamie is taking me a run on 13th next month, incontinence pants ordered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Jamie is taking me a run on 13th next month, incontinence pants ordered I think Jamie could take me out in my old mans Suzuki Alto and scare the c**p out of me though ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 This i belive Jamie said was only at 1.4bar too, so more still available. Correct and with NOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 No your right not been out in a 500bhp supra...well I have but the guy didnt drive it too fast, but had a nice journey in a 600bhp skyline in the pissing rain and fook me![sHOCK][/sHOCK] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 You'll need something a fair bit bigger than a GT35R for 600rwhp. Doubt you'd make that with a T67 either, or a GT4088. You're not going to get full boost by 4K either (although this of course depends on which gear you're talking about). At 1.4bar of boost I see 580rwhp on a T67. In 4th gear you'll see 1.4bar at almost exactly 4000rpm. A T67 will run higher boost but 1.4bar happens to be right at it's most efficient point and it'll do it all day. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 What are you plans for the car, whats it going to be used for, street or strip. Big numbers are good for the strip and pub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 Street mainly...if I narrow my goals down to a very responsive turbo with say 500rwhp what would you suggest? Turbowise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Just gonna hack througha few of these comments: I would rather change the fuel rail just now so I'm not restricted in the future, and my engine has only done 55K miles, been well serviced as far as I know over here, I dont think it would last very long at that sort of power but it would be capable of, for the time being. I've seen well maintained stock bottom ends take 500-600bhp and look as new inside after years. The T04Z was my original ideal choice It's not quite as good as a T67DBB and costs twice as much. Make your own decision. The T04Z maybe slightly too big for what I'm after because after driving the car a while I think I'm gonna wanna tone it down a bit, get the rebuild and just focus on response, which will probably mean changing the injectors again...which I dont mind as long as it is just them rather than the whole fuel system. This doesn't make much sense. You say that less than 600 at the wheels is a let down but then build a car with the specific aim of detuning it later?! If you want super response and good power, get a 61 sized turbo. If you want super street power and good response get a 67 sized turbo. Anything bigger I think you'd have real problems with Go for dual ball bearing as well. But for now with my current setup would 800cc - 850cc be the ideal choice for say a turbo like the T04Z running like 1.4bar? 800cc is as big as I'd go. Is the stock block even capable of running 1.4bar with a turbo like a T04Z? An attempt will be made at lowering the compression ratios with a bigger head gasket but would that be enough for a few months? Yes it's more than capable, as mentioned above. Don't lower the compression as a) a thicker head gasket is a ghastly way of doing it and b) it'll make off-boost response poorer and bugger up your secondary aim of responsiveness. You also don't need to lower the compression anyway. I wanna have the 600to play with for a bit then as I say tone it down, to probably about the above figure, maybe even less if I'm going on a track... Just turn the boost down. I run 1.2bar normally and it's still daft fast. A couple of button presses on the boost controller and I'm back to maximum power. How do I know that the injectors I buy are gonna be running at the optimum 85-90% duty cycle, is there a formula for achieving this? There is no "optimum" duty cycle, just a "maximum recommended". 800s will easily run 600bhp with plenty of overhead. Oh I would like a turbo that does make boost pretty early but achieves full boost as I say at around the 4500 - 5000mark, would this be MORE achievable running the turbo at 1.2bar or 1.4bar? I expect it would be the 1.2bar? Well, the turbo has to go through 1.2bar to reach 1.4bar so your assumption is correct 4500-5000rpm is kinda high up the rev range but as ever with these figures bandied about, no-one mentions what gear you are in Trust me, in a 67-size equipped car you'll be on boost above 4000rpm or out of grip in the lower gears anyway! -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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