Nic Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 OK what am I not understanding here? I was under the impression that a 71 was a fairly large turbo? The 0.71 number refers to the AR on the exhaust side, which is small for a Supra, ie. it will spin up fast, but run out of puff. The turbo is a T61 which is relatively small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 I don't know if it's 'clocked', or even what that means TBH, is that when it's on the piss compared to at right angles to the head? There's also the height issue to consider, isn't there? Or are the exhaust outlets all at the same height on different turbos? What is the issue with the water return then? How can a bit of hose and a couple of fittings cost £120? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 The turbo is a T61 which is relatively small. Aint it a GT60 (PHR Nomenclature), or do ya mean its like a 61? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Jake, you know I'm a numpty so this is just personal experience I don't know if it's 'clocked', or even what that means TBH, is that when it's on the piss compared to at right angles to the head? Clocked means the turbo is angled so that the compressor is pointing away from the block at around a 20deg angle. The angle of deflection on "single" manifold seems to be either Zero deg (XS power, Auto Chrome) or 20deg (PHR/BL/HKS...etc). Now Ive looked at your pics, you have a clocked manifold There's also the height issue to consider, isn't there? Or are the exhaust outlets all at the same height on different turbos? The height issue is one thing, but between turbo of the size we're talking about the difference is all but insignificant. From what I've seen a switch from a T61 to T74 means only around 12mm higher positioning of the exhaust flange. What is the issue with the water return then? How can a bit of hose and a couple of fittings cost £120? For me its been the return thats caused problems The stock water neck needs modding with an extra plate cut and welded into place to accept a decent thread into it (the stock neck is too thin). Then you have to route this to the turbo and to do this tidy is a PITA. I used aeroquip stuff so cost a lot of money, but you could use Ian C's methos to save quite a few pence (though it results in more points of failure IMO). Be sure to research the water cooling first, almost all guides I've seen posted here and Supraforums are wrong. There is a 'best' way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I would go for a 4088 but Jamie said it's not a straight swap. It was not a staight swap on mine (new oil return, 10mm spacer to stop the housing hitting the exhaust mainfold and we had to modifie the downpipe) but as i said in the other thread that may not be the case on your car. I went from the T88 which was taller and longer, id imagine the Phr1 is pretty simlar in size and you are welcome to measure mine up if you like;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 It was not a staight swap on mine (new oil return, 10mm spacer to stop the housing hitting the exhaust mainfold and we had to modifie the downpipe) but as i said in the other thread that may not be the case on your car. I went from the T88 which was taller and longer, id imagine the Phr1 is pretty simlar in size and you are welcome to measure mine up if you like;) Jamie, your orginal kit was completely different to Jake's, most of you points aren't relevant in Jake's situation. The T88/78 DP would need modifying as it's not V band. The oil return etc are different on a T78/T88 car. Your manifold is a different style to Jakes ( PHR use a HKS manifold), so the turbo sits in a different position. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 I think you and Jamie are saying the same thing then Terry. So it sounds like a gt4088 or a BL67 with or without dbb might be a relatively painless swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Jamie, your orginal kit was completely different to Jake's, most of you points aren't relevant in Jake's situation. The T88/78 DP would need modifying as it's not V band. The oil return etc are different on a T78/T88 car. Your manifold is a different style to Jakes ( PHR use a HKS manifold), so the turbo sits in a different position. HTH Thanks for agreeing with me;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Sorry Jamie, I was just clarifying your points technically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Why is your PHR stage 1 running out of puff at 130mph, where are you based Jake as mine also uses a PHR Stage 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 Why is your PHR stage 1 running out of puff at 130mph, I dunno Wez, at TOTB it did ¼mile at 130mph but only managed just over 160mph in the full mile. The dyno sheets bear this out too, you can see that the power drops off after about 5800rpm http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7834/w848xgpdynochartonlyud9.th.jpg where are you based Jake as mine also uses a PHR Stage 1. Waterlooville near Portsmouth Hants, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Your graph doesnt look that different from mine using the same turbo, I also have a drop off in power from approx 5800 and torque drops even more but my car seems to accelerate ok after 130. I was asking where you were to see if it was viable for you to take a ride in my motor to compare to your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I think you need to establish your target Jake? A very drivable road car, or low quarter miles? IMHO some of the comments above regarding big power would result in extra expenditure that may not provide driveability that you want for road use? That graph looks pretty good to me, personally I wouldn't go above 6k revs anyway on standard internals and as for 130mph, road cars don't need this. This is what PHR Stage 1 kit is designed and intended for I think? Or perhaps I'm just talking garbage again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 16, 2007 Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 Your graph doesnt look that different from mine using the same turbo, I also have a drop off in power from approx 5800 and torque drops even more but my car seems to accelerate ok after 130. Mine does accelerate OK but the drop off in power at high revs is noticeable. I only had one run at TOTB before my clutch stated slipping and I think I was hanging onto the revs too long in each gear. Letting it rev to the redline is pointless with a small single, the power drops off way before then. I hadn't had the car dynoed at the time of TOTB and wasn't really used to driving it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 FWIW, I'd try a T61 with a 0.84a/r exhaust housing....or your turbo with a larger a/r... it will slow the spool a little, but that's not really a problem on a small turbo is it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 What cams are you running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bromy Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 FWIW, I'd try a T61 with a 0.84a/r exhaust housing....or your turbo with a larger a/r... it will slow the spool a little, but that's not really a problem on a small turbo is it!! Mine is a T61 with a 0.84a/r and it gets on boost quite early, think IanC still might have the emanage logs to verify at what revs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Mine is a T61 with a 0.84a/r and it gets on boost quite early, think IanC still might have the emanage logs to verify at what revs Yeah I didn't mean it would spool slow...just slower than the .68 version or .71 in the case of Jake's original turbo. The larger housing will allow the VVTi to give goo power into the 6,000's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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