cookci Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 it was at the top of the pile but i forgot i was using search lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I thought the water feed to the throttle body was to stop it icing up in real cold weather. You think about how cold the air must be when rushing past at x metres per second if it's -5degC ambient - add some moisture and it could freeze the throttle open. Which would be bad. Helps cold start, that's funny that is How exactly does it do that eh? By supplying heat? Er, the coolant is cold, that's why it's a cold start -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattanna Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Lucifer has done an n/a with 350bhp and no turbo, thread on mkiv store section somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Lucifer has done an n/a with 350bhp and no turbo, thread on mkiv store section somewhere Is doing not done. It let go big time. Current figure is around 300. A customer has one of ours on a proven 251@7000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Is doing not done. It let go big time. Us vultures demand photos of nasty broken bits! What happened? Which bit let go? My money is conrod at high rpms -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Ian why do you say the conrod, I have just this dicussion with someone and they say the internals are exactly the same as the TT lump, only difference being the oil squirters ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 The internals are the same... If the rev limit was raised really high, it would snap a rod on either engines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Rod bolt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Ian why do you say the conrod, I have just this dicussion with someone and they say the internals are exactly the same as the TT lump, only difference being the oil squirters ?? High RPMs is the only real way of getting big power out of an NA engine, and high RPMs put a massive load on the conrod at TDC on the exhaust stroke, and it's a tensile force, i.e. it's pulling the big end apart. A TT would fall apart the same way, only they don't have to be revved to buggery to get power -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I thought the water feed to the throttle body was to stop it icing up in real cold weather. You think about how cold the air must be when rushing past at x metres per second if it's -5degC ambient - add some moisture and it could freeze the throttle open. Which would be bad. Helps cold start, that's funny that is How exactly does it do that eh? By supplying heat? Er, the coolant is cold, that's why it's a cold start -Ian Thank you Ian, a voice of sanity speaks out from the melee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Us vultures demand photos of nasty broken bits! What happened? Which bit let go? My money is conrod at high rpms -Ian Not far off Ian, No 1 big end Bearing, we used Toyota bearings, its now being rebuilt with Clevite 77. I usually use Clevite, but this was our first Na so it was a bit of a test of the OE parts too really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Oh and it let go at around 9100 rpm. We were hoping for 10k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Not far off Ian, No 1 big end Bearing, we used Toyota bearings, its now being rebuilt with Clevite 77. I usually use Clevite, but this was our first Na so it was a bit of a test of the OE parts too really. Now I'm not *that* up on engine internals so I'm interested in this - I thought that the bearing surfaces weren't supposed to touch metal-to-metal at all, and there is a oil bearing surface between them. The phrase "spun up a bearing" or "picked up a bearing" means, as far as I know, that the conrod has touched the crank while under load and speed, due to low oil pressure or oil starvation or something (overrevving!), and the bearing surface gets mashed up. So if that's correct - how does changing the bearing type make a difference when it comes to high rpms? If they touch it's lunched no matter what it is, it's just supposed to be smooth and nicely within tolerance to provide the perfect surface for the oil...? I'm gonna poach this thread for tech -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Jason who builds the engines here (Ex WRC engine builder for Toyota) is out today so ill get the info tomorrow. Its over my head when we get this far into engines. He did explain about crank whip, but I gto a bit lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 A take it the next attempt will be using a dry sump setup then Martin? 9100rpms is pretty good going though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest supracar1995na Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Good luck on getting permission to post on that site.I signed up days ago,and have since sent them e-mails and still NOTHING,not even a reply.I figure ....They wanna be that way,guess I don't need em.I go to all the other forums and have gotten advice from some great ,friendly people without having to WAIT to be included.Though my post on here hasn't gotten ANY replies,and I have a mystifying problem,so far it sounds like I'm gonna have to start cuttin wires in the dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Errr I think you posted that in the wrong thread? -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Now I'm not *that* up on engine internals so I'm interested in this - I thought that the bearing surfaces weren't supposed to touch metal-to-metal at all, and there is a oil bearing surface between them. The phrase "spun up a bearing" or "picked up a bearing" means, as far as I know, that the conrod has touched the crank while under load and speed, due to low oil pressure or oil starvation or something (overrevving!), and the bearing surface gets mashed up. So if that's correct - how does changing the bearing type make a difference when it comes to high rpms? If they touch it's lunched no matter what it is, it's just supposed to be smooth and nicely within tolerance to provide the perfect surface for the oil...? I'm gonna poach this thread for tech -Ian Possibly a larger bearing standout? So that the clamp load on the bearing is much higher, and would presumably keep the bearing from spinning if the big end started to separate slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Errr I think you posted that in the wrong thread? -Ian I presume he was on about Supraforums mentioned on the first page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Thank you Ian, a voice of sanity speaks out from the melee. I thought the water feed to the throttle body was to stop it icing up in real cold weather. You think about how cold the air must be when rushing past at x metres per second if it's -5degC ambient - add some moisture and it could freeze the throttle open. Which would be bad. Helps cold start, that's funny that is How exactly does it do that eh? By supplying heat? Er, the coolant is cold, that's why it's a cold start -Ian So, is there a general consensus about this mod? It sounds like it could be worthwhile for summer to autumn times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookci Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 So, is there a general consensus about this mod? It sounds like it could be worthwhile for summer to autumn times. a know of 4 celica owners who have done this mod and ran through winters without a glitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 Well like Ian or someone rightly pointed out whats the point in having the hose feed through your throttle body for cold winter starts when the water would be cold in the first place from you only just starting it, so what is the point of that design..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Now I'm not *that* up on engine internals so I'm interested in this - I thought that the bearing surfaces weren't supposed to touch metal-to-metal at all, and there is a oil bearing surface between them. The phrase "spun up a bearing" or "picked up a bearing" means, as far as I know, that the conrod has touched the crank while under load and speed, due to low oil pressure or oil starvation or something (overrevving!), and the bearing surface gets mashed up. So if that's correct - how does changing the bearing type make a difference when it comes to high rpms? If they touch it's lunched no matter what it is, it's just supposed to be smooth and nicely within tolerance to provide the perfect surface for the oil...? I'm gonna poach this thread for tech -Ian Right just spoke to Jason and he said the reason was due to the Rod oil exit clearences. He is re machining an NA crank for more clearence this week. Basiacally the bearing could stand up to the heat which is why we are going clevite and widning the oil ways. Widning the oilways is what we do to the big single engines too as a matter of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Well like Ian or someone rightly pointed out whats the point in having the hose feed through your throttle body for cold winter starts when the water would be cold in the first place from you only just starting it, so what is the point of that design..... I have had inlet icing in Spring too. I woudl never remove that system on teh stock system. Bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 I dont doubt you mate, just saying like Ian or someone pointed out.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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