Snooze Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 In another thread on here, some terribly sad news was reported regarding someone's friend dying due to a mistake made in a hospital. What I want to say (doing this separately, because it doesn't belong in the other thread) is that I'm really scared by the number of people who's first response is "sue"! Are people really that financially greedy these days?!?! IMO, it's that sort of attitude that's tearing this country to shreds! It's partly because hospitals are having to pay out more and more in compensation like this that remaining staff are forced to work longer and harder for poor wages, causing even more of the same mistakes! And whilst I understand the feeling of need for some sort of recompense or revenge, people have to understand that the people who are ultimately really responsible - ie. those who decide to underfund the NHS do not suffer at all from this kind of action. The only people who really suffer are the ones who recieve subsequent poor treatment because of it. The only people who gain big from this kind of attitude are the lawyers and the insurance companies, who are lining their pockets and laughing at all of us! Please think of this before you continue contributing to the ever-increasing "claim" culture in the UK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steviekid Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 It's partly because hospitals are having to pay out more and more in compensation like this that remaining staff are forced to work longer and harder for poor wages, causing even more of the same mistakes! I completely agree with this. Sueing the NHS doesn't help anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3DG3CKO ROB Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 A friend of ours had her baby last year and the midwife noticed that there was swelling 'down there' where they had put the catheter in... The doctor didn't investigate when it was reported and when she gave birth the catheter tore her bladder badly... Turns out that they hadn't put it in properly, hence the swelling... She's had 3 major surgeries now and still no joy, 21 and stuck with a 7 month old baby and a colostomy bag... Surely people should be entitled to compensation if the staff just haven't done their job and consequently put peoples lives at risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 We all pay for the NHS...so you're sueing all of us if you sue them... Heads should roll when incompetence is shown. And any care needed, given. But that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Yeah I disagree. If you took your car to a body shop and they messed it up due to a mistake, neglegence or for whatever reason you'd want some form of compensation... and that's just over a car, material goods... When it comes to life, you can't put a price on it, but that doesn't meant you don't deserve to see some compensation. What is concerning is all those claims for whiplash, a damaged carpet and so on that people make periodically because they think the insurance somehow 'owes it' to them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonR Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Sueing them doesn't help as the staff who made the errors aren't directly affected, only the overall budget suffers. NHS hospitals are effectively above the law because you have no meaningful redress against the culprits. They are also the only bodies who are openly rewarded for failure - whenever they arse something up they scream "not enough funds" and get more taxpayers dosh. Strange that the near doubling of their funding (in real terms) since 1997 seems to have gone mainly on pay rises and more administrators. There are now fewer medical staff and hospital beds than ten years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I don't think sueing was ever meant to help the guilty party, that's looking at it backwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I ended up with a absess the size of an orange on my bowel, and my bowel actually ended up perferating before anything was done about me in the NHS, and id been complaining about feeling really ill and being in alot of pain for FIVE months, and a+e sent me home 6times, each time with painkillers, 4of them times i wa in that much pain i could hardly walk. In my eyes thats incompetance and i dont see why they should get away with it. Im going to be writing a letter of complaint. Ive lost over 15grand in work pay because of it. Bupa is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 We all pay for the NHS...so you're sueing all of us if you sue them... Heads should roll when incompetence is shown. And any care needed, given. But that's it. You are right, I agree. I do think the system and NHS concept is, and always will be, flawed. The medical system they have in the states and all over europe is far better because everything is privately funded (and liable). So they are both better funded, more culpable and effective. I know private insurance costs, but I do think the UK society is far too lax in many aspects; it just doesn't encourage enough of the population to take control and contribute. The hard working work too hard and then there are the people who never grow up. There is always something wrong with every country, but I feel the UK is becoming way to socialist for my liking... maybe I'm just looking at it from a different angle now I'm older, but sponging now seems a life choice / carrear. Litigation is for the most part money not compensation (there are always exceptions).. have you noticed how many "have you had an accident" commercials there are on daytime TV? Targeting people who should be at work contributing to society not watching daytime TV. I'm not surprised a lot of the hard workers are moving out of the country. I work hard and it gets my goat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 So many public services, are under an increasing amount of bureaucratic red tape. It becomes a vicious circle. People sue, so the services spend more time on documentation so they have evidence if they are sued. Much of this documentation does nothing to improve the quality services. Mental health services have to undertake huge risk assessment, when a change in a patients care is planned. School have to do the same for every activity where pupils are on out f school activities. All this extra paper work required by authorities has to be completed by individuals as an extra part of their job. No extra time is given. These and many other demands have been taken on by public service personnel with in their existing working hours. Some thing has to give as there are only so many hours in a working day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 In my eyes thats incompetance and i dont see why they should get away with it. Im going to be writing a letter of complaint. Ive lost over 15grand in work pay because of it. Bupa is the way to go. I agree matey, that's terrible, I'm glad I decided to take out a policy. If I had to choose between Bupa and the supra I'd probably choose BUPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I agree matey, that's terrible, I'm glad I decided to take out a policy. If I had to choose between Bupa and the supra I'd probably choose BUPA. Me too, id choose BUPA anyday, i wouldnt want to go through the last 5months again. This is what i ended up with because nobody took much notice of my complaints.... Even the gp was guilty, he told me it was my kidney rubbing on my bowel and causing an inflammation:rolleyes: . When infact it was chrones, and because it wasnt treated for so long an absess grew and my bowel perferated when i ate something that didnt agree with me (cerial bar) and caused a 'flare up'. Got nothing but praise for my surgeon though, i wouldnt be here without him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 BUPA all the way. I also feel that if someone has private medical care then they should pay a reduced NI figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Good post Snooze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk-rich Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I also feel that if someone has private medical care then they should pay a reduced NI figure. that would make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Litigation is for the most part money not compensation (there are always exceptions).. have you noticed how many "have you had an accident" commercials there are on daytime TV? Targeting people who should be at work contributing to society not watching daytime TV. Well said, that's the heart of the matter. Some people claim for personal gain, milk everything they can for what they can - this is the real problem. Those 'have you had an accident at work' type adverts make me mad, parasitic behaviour at its worst! However, trying to get some compensation because a mistake or neglegence has lead to loss of life is not the real problem at all. After all, that poor guy (from the other thread) was in the prime of his life, he may have had a family and kids, left behind with no one to support them now... Compensation is not wrong in this case, far from it. I've paid taxes and national insurance all my life, I've never claimed anything, benefits or anything else. I've only ever had one operation and that was over 15 years ago. So I'm a strong giver and not a taker yet I don't have a problem when geniune cases occur and compensation is sought, even if indirectly it costs me more. Remember, it could happen to any of us or someone we know, then your perspective may be 100% polarised the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Removed....didn't read the other thread properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I've paid taxes and national insurance all my life, I've never claimed anything, benefits or anything else. I've only ever had one operation and that was over 15 years ago. So I'm a strong giver and not a taker yet I don't have a problem when geniune cases occur and compensation is sought, even if indirectly it costs me more. Remember, it could happen to any of us or someone we know, then your perspective may be 100% polarised the other way. Right on! but slightly off topic, but running alongside the "downfall of society" You know - a beat bobby mate of mine said he was in a DHSS houshold the other week sorting out something that their kids had done and he overheard the following conversation; "You know after xxx's birthday we'll lose that money, so we'll have to have another kid" Can you believe that in this day and age people are having children for financial gain? For one, we are paying for them to raise kids. Two they have no interest in the kids development, and that's not fair on the kid. Thirdly, the kids will grow up malajusted and put further strain on the system, as well as pulling sociatal values down. Why does no-one in govnment ever talk about this? is it because they are afraid of losing votes? If it is that's even worse; because the people pulling society down are the one the poiticians are afraid of! On a happier note - remember that wifeswap where the family did sod all and the household income was 37k, against the hardworking family that had a combined 25 after tax? (it really stuck in my throught) - she was recently given community service for not declaring income from promo and photoshoot. I also feel that if someone has private medical care then they should pay a reduced NI figure. I agree entirely, but I doubt it would ever happen though - running our own business it's just phenominal the amount of tax we pay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcgoo Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Me too, id choose BUPA anyday, i wouldnt want to go through the last 5months again. This is what i ended up with because nobody took much notice of my complaints.... Even the gp was guilty, he told me it was my kidney rubbing on my bowel and causing an inflammation:rolleyes: . When infact it was chrones, and because it wasnt treated for so long an absess grew and my bowel perferated when i ate something that didnt agree with me (cerial bar) and caused a 'flare up'. Got nothing but praise for my surgeon though, i wouldnt be here without him.... My personal experience of the NHS has been 100% positive. I had a very similar situation as the above, except it was millatary doctors telling me I had IBS and my treatment was peppermint oil. It was only when I was on leave my bowels colapsed into my pelvis and I got rushed to a civilian A&E that I was diagnosed with Chrones. 6 weeks in hospital, a foot and a half of intestine removed and not a bad word to say about it. This was nearly 7 years ago so I suppose things could have changed, but I still see my sergeon, in person, every 6 to 12 months so he can monitor my progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I don't know how anyone can consider money when something tragic happens. Unfortunately they do. I have thank god never been in a situation like that. What happens when there is negligence and someone suffers something permanent? Would there be some kind of internal investigation? Would that cost the average tax payer money? Would that make the care received even worse? How do the family ensure that justice is done, I really have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonR Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Why does no-one in govnment ever talk about this?Would you? If people stopped to think about the extent to which the welfare state has gone mad there would be riots in the streets. I don't think people realise how much tax they really pay (not just income tax and NI) and how little they get back for it. Funding legions of civil servants handing out my money to scroungers isn't something I like to think about too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 In another thread on here, some terribly sad news was reported regarding someone's friend dying due to a mistake made in a hospital. I'm really scared by the number of people who's first response is "sue"! Two people. have you noticed how many "have you had an accident" commercials there are on daytime TV? Targeting people who should be at work contributing to society not watching daytime TV.No, are there a lot of them? Perhaps these people are at home watching TV because they can't work due to somebody else's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 You are right Jake, there are always exceptions, but I still think there is a general trend towards a culture of "what can my country do for me", not "what can I do for my country". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terawua Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I was about to start ranting when I began reading this thread, but most of the points have been said here already and I am pleased to see that quite a few people see the bigger picture. As for going to A&E 6 times before getting diagnosed, yes that's crap - anyone who returns with the same problem should be seen by a registrar or above and sorted or further investigated. One cha I remember came ack three times in a week, on the fourth attendance he got a CT brain and had a tennis ball sized tumour in his frontal lobe. I have worked in A&E and its pretty worrying as you see people who firstly should go to their GP but cant be arsed to get an appointment because its inconvenient or there is a wait, or there are those who come because they are seen by a doctor from a medical outsourcing company because their own GP has just had a large pay rise and managed to get themselves out of having to provide out of hours cover. So more pressure on A&E. As for managers - now consultants have to ask a manager if they can operate on someone they dont control their own operating lists, it is done by managers - people wait longer for an operation listed as urgent because they are not needing the operation that is currently flavour of the month in the department of health. When doctors get it wrong consider this - imagine running your car without servicing it - it would be okay for a while but then start to show real problems, just like in the NHS. Years of underinvestment are now starting to improve but it costs a lot more now than in 1980 when these things should have been done hence the apparent huge investment going nowhere. Some hospitals are now nice new PFI buildings - when I was in London, one of such buildings was right next to the hospital it was due to replace. Several building workers came through with injuries saying that they had never seen such a cheaply made poor quality building in their lives and that it would be falling apart in 15 years. The trust in question will inherit the building and be liable for its upkeep from 18 years' time.... As for cock ups, they do happen, and I hate to say it but often they come down to money. A CT abdomen would have diagnosed Crohn's and an abscess no problem. Having been in A&E there is no way you are going to get a CT without a wait unless someone is about to croak there and then and even then it is an argument. Its not that the radiologist who looks at the scan is an arsehole, its just that they know that if they do it they will keep Mrs Bloggs who has been waiting for 8 months for her outpatient scan will be delayed or even have to be rebooked. There is no slack in the system. As for the staff, well think about this. I have just been asked to sign a letter saying by job is band 2b which will give me a 20% pay cut but without any decrease in workload. This is on the back of us effectively having an agreement that we dont say we work band 3 (100%pay supplement for working more than 60 hours a week with more than 25% of that antisocial hours) as it is now 'trust policy' that no one will be paid more than band 2b . During my last diary card monintoring ( a 2 week period where we have to mark off in 15 mninure blocks what we were doing, and what time we went home and why we stayed late and did our consultant 'make us stay late' their words not mine). I worked a 'band 3' week those two weeks i.e. the most intensive. Now a hell of a lot of what actually gets done in the NHS gets done because of the goodwill of the doctors, nurses and allied health professionals doing it. If we turned into a bunch of jobsworths and just did the bare minimum there would be people bying by the bucketload. Is it fair that this is taken advantage of - emotional blackmail because at the end of the day we do the job because we care? Anyway I am rampling now, I think I just passed the longest ever post by me by some fair margin. I just get a little annoyed when people dont understand the environment in which things like this can happen. Best of luck with everyones respective recoveries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Imagine a guy has a family, maybe some kids. What if he is the only bread winner for the family ? His wife and kids have been deprived of their father / husband but also their sole means of income. I think they are entitled to some sort of recompence don't you ? Most large organisations these days have public liabiltiy insurance for exactly these reasons. I don't agree with ambulance chasing because you stubbed your toe on a block of wood otr anything like that but where a serious error has occured then i feel it is justified in seeking monetary gain and or disciplinary action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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