Grazer Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Just got back from holiday - sup in garage for 2 weeks. Started up no bother so went out for a drive round the neigbourhood. All felt fine until I noticed red triangle warning light which drew my eye to engine temp which was right at the top (H). EGT's were fine - not even 1000. I pulled over and popped the lid and everything looked ok (very untrained eye!). Nothing really felt too hot. So I drove on and the yellow/orange engine block warning light came on. I was close to home so drove back and when I opened the bonnnet this time there was a lot of smoke. There is also a horrible bubbling noise ?oil, ?water which is still going after 5 - 10 minutes. I can't really tell where it is coming from. I am extremely worried - any ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 If you look on the floor is there any liquid? Sounds like your cooling system is shot, in some fashion. Check the expansion tank, is it full and bubbling in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Has the water level dropped dangerously low for some reason? That would account for the bubbling noice and the overheating. Mine was doing the same as you've described when the rad had a slight leak that I didn't know about. Obviously don't check the water level in the rad for a good few hours until the car has cooled fully. Good luck mate, hope it's nothing serious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Blown head gasket or blocked / leaking rad IMO Hope you get it fixed ok m8 Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazer Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 OK - noise has stopped but I'm not going near the rad for a couple of hours. There is quite a lot of oil splashed around the engine bay - I had cleaned it recently so it must have been today. Here's some pics: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gcsimpson/2004_07_arse01.jpg Where the smoke was coming from http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gcsimpson/2004_07_arse02.jpg Oil splashed underneath the air intake pipes http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gcsimpson/2004_07_arse03.jpg Big dod of oil on this bit (that's as technical as I get I'm afraid) http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gcsimpson/2004_07_arse04.jpg Oil all over the shop When it all cools down what exactly should I do? How do I check the rad - or can I? Oil all over the place doesn't seem good...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 The oil has become very hot and therfore thin and come out of places it normally wouldnt , check the water if its full you may have a thermostat prob !!! Dude:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazer Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 Water level - there is no level, it's all gone!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 check the rad cap and see if thats working properly, has it perished and the spring stopped working? If so then its possible all the water got blown out the expansion tank, same thing happened to my import and it survived okay. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I am having similar probs with my omega. A dodgy thermostat, leaky rad (is there a low rad warning light ie the one he saw first?) general coolant leaks on any of the pipework including heater matrix. Even something like a big poly bag stuck across the radiator. Like dude says once an engine oveheats it starts to pop oil out of places it wouldn't normally. If you drove it too much in an overheated condition you can risk warping heads like it looks like I did on my omega. By warping I mean to the degree it lifts off the head gasket and needs the head gasket changing and the head re-surfacing. I can't see it being a fan problem with it being a direct drive jobber. My omega long term had leccy problems with all 3 fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRoy Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 as JB said faulty rad cap pressure can do it, happened to me years ago. Get get the cooling system pressure tested to rule out anything else (I presume you can do this on a Supe?) Dude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazer Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hmm - a new rad cap sounds much better than a BHG (I've done a search ) What should I do now? When I take off the rad cap is that the expansion tank I'm looking into? It's empty so I obviously need to fill it with something before I drive again - again searching came up with Toyota 4-life vs water vs water with antifreeze. Once I've filled it what can I do to try and see what the prob is - do I need to buy a new rad cap to try that?? I find it odd that it ran fine (never ever ran hot) until I left it standing for 2 weeks then drove - is that not a clue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Rubber doesn't like being sat around doing nowt, to think of it neither do springs. Generally speaking if a leak is gonna happen it will do it after a period of in-activity. A pressure test should be a simple affair that any garage/MOT station can perform and it will show up pretty much any fault other than the cap that you take off to plug the test set in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazer Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 Originally posted by dangerous brain A pressure test should be a simple affair that any garage/MOT station can perform and it will show up pretty much any fault other than the cap that you take off to plug the test set in. So I should: 1 - Fill the rad up with ________ 2 - Go to local garage for pressure test 3 - Get it sorted??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Can't really tell from the pics how much oil we are talking about, it does not need much on a manifold to make loads of smoke making it look much worse than it is especially if there is steam mixed in with it. If it were my car I would fill up with water, and run at tick over for a while then raise the revs and clear the system of air and top up with water. Let is get to temps and see if the rad cap was the problem. If so get a new cap and some for life and do a complete flush. I may have a different solution in the morning when I am sober. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Originally posted by Grazer Hmm - a new rad cap sounds much better than a BHG (I've done a search ) What should I do now? When I take off the rad cap is that the expansion tank I'm looking into? It's empty so I obviously need to fill it with something before I drive again - again searching came up with Toyota 4-life vs water vs water with antifreeze. Once I've filled it what can I do to try and see what the prob is - do I need to buy a new rad cap to try that?? I find it odd that it ran fine (never ever ran hot) until I left it standing for 2 weeks then drove - is that not a clue The expansion tank has its own plastic cap, the rad is the thing at the very front of the engine bay, with it's own metal cap in the middle with two little wings. As Term says, buy a new rad cap and put it on, run the system through with water by pouring it into the rad and into the expansion tank, caps off of both whilst you're filling up. Keep revving the engine slightly from the bay to suck the water into the system and continue to top up via the rad until it's constantly pissing the water back out even when revving. If it's OK and the temp isn't shooting up to red on the gauge then get yourself back to Toyota and buy enough 4-Life red (also available in green) coolant to do a complete flush and change with that. Here's hoping it's just been something as simple Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Bit more worried about the engine light now I have read the post sober. It could still be the cap cause the initial probelm as if the pressure seal fails you loose water and the boiling point is lowered hence the boiling noise. The oil is a bit more worrying, the fan will have splatered it everywhere. I would check round the head gasket area to see if you have a wet (oil) area. Check your dip stick for froth (Oil /Water) and when you fill up with water check for oil in the water. May not show now as it will be cold. Not being alarmist but it did get very hot!!! If every your water temp shows high it must be investigated. Water should be checked, expansion bottle first then the rad cap, eve with it very hot you can turn it a very small amount with the cap covered to very slowly release the pressure which in very low water situations will cause more boiling, but just have to wait and check it can take many minutes to get the pressure down. Hope it is nothing serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonto_HAS_soop Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 It could always be your water pump losing it's vains, if it is an old water pump I think they can have a tendency to dissolve blades. If your blades are gone, then it won't pump water. The water will over heat and possibly overflow the expansion tank, when it cools down again it would then suck the remnants of the expansion tank back into the radiator leaving it low. Ben.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazer Posted July 10, 2004 Author Share Posted July 10, 2004 Just had another look at things in the cold light of day! The rad and expansion tank were both completely empty so I filled up system with water for the moment. Oil level was fine and didn't seem frothy or watery. I ran the engine for a while and did some revving and the temp came up to about 1/4 but no higher. What I did notice was a funny smell - almost fishy Then I noticed this: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gcsimpson/2004_07_arse05.jpg There was a lot of fluid dripping from underneath the enigine. It was very watery, but brown. The water level in the rad had dropped and the fishy smell was strong. Oil level looked the same. I'm guessing there are 2 reasons for this - correct me if I'm wrong which is likely! 1 - the head gasket is blown and this dripping is an oil/water mixture 2 - there is a leak in the coolant system and the water is discoloured from passing through a 10year old radiator and coolant system When I replaced the exhaust and clutch last month I told my wife there would be no more big spending on the sup for a while..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Old rad water can be a dark brown colour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Did you check the oil after running the engine, as water will sit under the oil if you have any in the sump once it has cooled and settled, but running the engine will mix it. I think you will be OK there as there are usually a few drops that stay on the dipstick. If you soak up some of the puddle with kitchen towel, if it is rad fluid it will evaporate and oil will be left behind. Hot spilt rad fluid can smell "fishy". So Option 2 is most likely. Just because it is everywhere under the car may not mean the HG is blown as the fan is very powerful and will spread it about all over the place. I wonder if your water pump seal has gone and it is being spread from there onto the pulley spun out and blown backwards in all directions. Your puddles do fall roughly in line with the pump location. Pump seals have a habit of going after being stood for a while. Fingers crossed it is nothing worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Fluids once they get out go everywhere, especially when fan, and intake air assisted. It gets into nooks and crannies and then takes an age to drip back out. The fishy smell will be stinky old coolant which is a minging reddy brown colour (crack a household radiator bleed valve and get a smell of that if you have any doubts). The best way to find the leak is have it pressure tested at a garage. That should find the leak and then what you do to remedy it is up to you. The head gasket "shouldn't" have gone after one overheat but it depends on how hot it got and for how long. The first warning light was probably a low rad warning. Before panicing get it to a garage and get it pressure tested. You could I guess drop the oil out into an open tray and have a looksee if there appears to be any water in it (an oil change never hurts a car after all). My head gasket bang on my Omega was compression side through to water side which I guess you can't rule out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazer Posted July 11, 2004 Author Share Posted July 11, 2004 Originally posted by dangerous brain crack a household radiator bleed valve and get a smell of that if you have any doubts I knew I'd smelt that smell before I collected some of the fluid that was leaking and although it was very dark in colour, there was no separation when it cooled so it doesn't look like oil. And it was very fishy! I'll find a garage to get a pressure test done tomorrow. What does it involve exactly? I'm presuming they detect a pressure drop in the system due to a leak, but how does this help to identify where the leak is? Is there any questions I should be asking when they're doing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Originally posted by Grazer I knew I'd smelt that smell before I collected some of the fluid that was leaking and although it was very dark in colour, there was no separation when it cooled so it doesn't look like oil. And it was very fishy! I'll find a garage to get a pressure test done tomorrow. What does it involve exactly? I'm presuming they detect a pressure drop in the system due to a leak, but how does this help to identify where the leak is? Is there any questions I should be asking when they're doing it? Its really technical... They stick a big bung thing like you get on home brew wine Vats with a pipe in it and they hand pump pressure in through the filler tank. If there is a leak the pressure on the gauge will drop and water will piss out of the leak. Takes a couple of minutes. If its leaking then it should show up pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazer Posted July 11, 2004 Author Share Posted July 11, 2004 Hmm - a big bung thing you say. I can just about get my head round that - cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra_Al Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Interesting thread, sorry to hear of your problems, a nasty situation to be in. My only input would be, you asked why after the car had been sitting in the garage for 2 weeks after no previous problems, should this happen? Could it be that the thermostat had jammed shut, and you failed to notice the rise in temp? All sorts of problems can arise with a hot engine from leaking hoses/rads to the dreaded BHG problem? Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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