Pot Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Did you ask them for your 6 years worth of statements first? If so, how long did they take to send them through?... I've given them a 40 day deadline to give me them, I'm just an impatient git... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges By Neil Faulkner (TMFVertigo) May 4, 2006 Five years ago I was young and very foolish, with a lower-case 'F'. I let myself get overdrawn several times, which cost me a little over £100 in penalties. But these charges are unlawful. I know I can claim them back, but so far I've been lazy. However, now that the Office of Fair Trading has got involved, today seems like the ideal day to get my act together. I'm going to tell you what I'll do to get my money back. Here's the background Banks and card providers charge penalties if you breach your contract by defaulting, making a late payment, going overdrawn, returning a bounced cheque, or if a direct debit or standing order fails. The thing is, they're not allowed to do this. What they can do is get you to cover the administrative costs that arise from it, but how much can it cost for a computer to print off a patronising automated letter, or to not process a direct debit? Not £25 to £40, but that's what they charge. As many of you will have heard, the Office of Fair Trading has decided that banks and credit card companies should charge no more than £12 for such breaches of contract. However, the only reason they set this figure was: "In order to swiftly reduce charges and avoid heavy-handed regulation." In other words, the charge is still too high, but they just quickly set a limit to help all consumers immediately. If they procrastinated over regulation instead, we'd take longer to see the benefits. Also, it'd cost businesses money to implement new regulations, and those costs would filter down to us. Since the OFT report, many people have already successfully recovered all of the charges plus interest that occurred in the past six years. (Six years is as far back as you can go in the courts.) You can do this too, whether you're claiming against your bank's charges or your card provider's. Here's the four-stage plan I'm using to do this. (Er, it was five stages, but I updated this on 23rd August 2006 to make it more streamlined!): 1. Check how much they owe you Firstly, work out what you're owed. I got this information by looking at my statements online, but you might use paper statements. If you don't have all of them, write to your provider quoting your account number and asking: Please send me a comprehensive list of all the charges that you have made to my account in the past six years, showing the date and amount of each charge, and a description of what it was for. I make this request using my rights under the Data Protection Act and expect your response within 40 days. You may want to call them a few days later to ensure they've received the letter. Make a note of the name of the person you speak to, as well as the time and date. 2. Ask for your money back When you have details of the charges, give them a call. Tell them that you did not give them permission to take the charges and that they are unlawful, then ask for a refund. This sometimes works, particularly for smaller amounts. Failing this, you need to write to them to request that they pay you back. My lawyer (OK, she's my mother, but she's a darn good solicitor too!) advised me that when you write to banks it carries a lot more weight if you show them in no uncertain terms that you know what the law is and where your authority for making a claim comes from. To that end, I'm going to use this letter, adapted from the successful one used by the Consumer Action Group: --- Dear Sir/Madam Account no: (your account number) Over the past six years, you have charged me for (enter what they have charged you for, e.g. exceeding your credit limit). It has come to my attention that this is unlawful at common law, and under statute and recent consumer regulations. In the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account, it is implied that you will conduct yourselves in a manner which complies with UK law. Unless you can prove that they merely cover your administrative costs, I require full repayment of these charges, which I calculate at £xxxx plus interest of £xxxx. The total is xxxx. I also ask you to remove any default notices on my credit record that are related to these charges. A correction or amendment to the entries is not acceptable. If you do not comply fully within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount, plus interest and costs, plus I shall submit a complaint to the Information Commissioner. Yours faithfully Xxxx --- (I updated the above letter on the 1st September based on feedback and to streamline it further.) The reason why you ask for default notices to be removed is if you defaulted on a charge. It's not fair that your credit record looks bad because of an unfair charge. If you're sure this hasn't happened to you, you can of course remove all the text in italics. If you include the text in italics, make sure you de-italicise it first! Again, I'd follow up this letter with a call a few days later. If my bank doesn't respond in two weeks I'm going to give them a call. They may offer a full refund, which would be fantastic. If they offer a partial refund, I'll tell them it's not acceptable and write another letter telling them so. If the bank tells me that they'll get back to me later, I'll write to them saying that I'll allow them just 14 more days before I take them to court. If the bank tells me the charges are not unlawful, I'll ignore their bluff and stick to my guns. So far, the banks have paid out in full before going to court in almost every single case, so clearly they know they're wrong. 3. Send a 'Letter Before Action' If they still haven't settled, you need to write a final letter, which we're calling a 'Letter Before Action', warning them that you will be taking them to court. You can see an example letter in the article My Claim For Unlawful Bank Charges. (I updated this section on the 23rd August. I removed the suggestion that you send a court form direct to the company in order to show you're serious, because it takes more time than it's worth!) 4. Take court action If they still don't pay up, I'll issue court proceedings. This sounds scary, but it probably won't even get as far as court anyway. My experience of small claims (claims of less than £5,000) is that big businesses that are in the wrong will often let it get right to the point where court proceedings are imminent, then they'll settle. You don't need a solicitor at the hearing if the claim is less than £5,000, as it's all rather informal. It'll cost around £130, which I can add to my claim. If I lose (and I'd be very surprised if I did), I won't have to pay the banks costs unless they can show that I've acted unreasonably. Which I won't. If my claim was for more than £5,000, I'd get a solicitor before proceeding. Good ol' mum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRalphMan Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Yup, that's exactly it. I used http://www.consumercorner.co.uk, sign up for their forum and read through the advice and letters. The mods and users are great over there, very helpful, very quick to reply and very supportive. They guided me through every step and urged me to carry on when getting cold feet. And I ended up £4.5k better off I also went through Consumercorner for a claim for the Brother-in-Law. He got his money back, although Barcleys waited until a few days before the court case before caving in. Also CC is a site run by a member on here, I think (http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=69788&highlight=bank). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ads Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Good Luck to all who are trying this keep us updated! I'm just sending off my letter to request the last 6 years of statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibbleyuk Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 being 19 i havnt had many charges yet lol about £40 i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul ashton Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 being 19 i havnt had many charges yet lol about £40 i think. Still worth it,better in your pocket than the banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiten55 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 i saw this the other day and forgot about it - doh!! I'll be writing my letter 1st thing tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul ashton Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 i saw this the other day and forgot about it - doh!! I'll be writing my letter 1st thing tomorrow Don't hang about,apparently the government are going to step in so anything can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 hmmmmm...... Ive seen this and hadnt thought much of it until now..... request to natwest I think once I settle what I owe to them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiten55 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Don't hang about,apparently the government are going to step in so anything can happen. Thanks for the heads up!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ads Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Does anyone know whether you have to wait 40 working days or just 40 days for your list of charges?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pot Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I just said 40 days, so they're not getting any more Strangely though Natwest have now sent my housemate's letter back with a request for £5, but we sent them a cheque for £10 with the letter, but haven't returned or cashed that cheque... I still haven't heard anything off Lloyds about my claim yet, but we're still in the early days of the 40 dap period... Time to look on that site to see what to do about this cheque... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 40 Earth days, thats official. Banks will try anything to get more time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 or, charge the banks a £12 admin fee for every day they have failed to get back to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Please send me a comprehensive list of all the charges that you have made to my account in the past six years, showing the date and amount of each charge, and a description of what it was for. I make this request using my rights under the Data Protection Act and expect your response within 40 days This sounds like a good idea The other info I have seen on this requests 6 years of statements which I really could not be asked to go through. As for the moneysaving site, great info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey76364 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I sat at home and worked it all out... im very bad with my money Just over 1K of charges in the last 12 months. Sent a letter by post and email today. The BBC Website has a great letter already written up to use. 27 February 2007 The Woolwich Watling Street Bexleyheath Kent DA6 7RR Dear Sir/Madam Regarding: Acc num: Sort Code: Due to recent media coverage on bank charges I now believe that you, The Woolwich have been charging me charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation. I believe that your charges are disproportionately high and therefore they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999. In addition I believe that your charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79 along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963. It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses. It is clear that your charges do not reflect any actual and or real loss. Furthermore if you fail to comply with this letter, I request without further notice a breakdown and proof of all costs involved, in regards to your actual or liquidated losses involved in any breach of contract to which these charges relate with yourselves, and that these charges reflect your true costs in relation to the said charges, and are proportionate to the charges levied on my account as defined in Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e). Therefore I require you to refund me a total of £****representing the total, unlawful amount charged during the last 12 months. I hereby give you 14 days to refund the charges back on to my account. For the avoidance of doubt, if this is not done within 14 days, I will commence my claim in the courts without further warning. This action will inevitably involve you in additional costs. I also hereby request a detailed report of which clause in your terms and conditions each charge has been applied against. Yours sincerely, I only did the last 12 months, I could always track back more if i wish too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ads Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I only did the last 12 months, I could always track back more if i wish too. Go back over the last 6 years mate. You'll be rolling in it! POT - who did you make your £10 cheque payable to? NATWAST BANK?? thats what I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Cousin just got £5200 off the Northern bank!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ads Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 holy crap! What stage did he take it too? good for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I got £1200 off hsbc about a month ago, need to send my letters off to Capital one and Cti now, theres another grand. will pay for my uprated clutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Crikey. You really should not write cheques that you can't afford though, for example. I pay my credit card by Switch every month, since there's always a chance that I won't have paid myself any money in time to cover a direct debit. The last couple of times I have been a day late, and my card statement says "Late fee - £20", then the next line says "Automatic late fee reversal". Cool huh My bank charge me about £1 for every cheque that I write, £1 for every cheque that I bank, and £0.50 for every £100 cash that I withdraw. but I know this, so I don't know if it's fair to go after them for all this money back, is it? They have routinely credited me for £30 charges in the past, where a supplier has cashed a cheque, and the money has gone out of my account only a day before they have credited my account with cheques that I have paid in. So they've been good like that really, to a point. but ~£1,000 p/a in charges is really bad. How many of those charges relate to cheques being bounced on other people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 I think the point is that the charges have to be relational to the cost that you messing up actually costs the bank. I mean you go overdrawn and they charge you £40 or whatever it doesn't cost them £40 to administer that, I think that's what it's all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 I think the point is that the charges have to be relational to the cost that you messing up actually costs the bank. I mean you go overdrawn and they charge you £40 or whatever it doesn't cost them £40 to administer that, I think that's what it's all about. True. The charges should be more reasonable. Perhaps they should refund a good percentage, leaving in reasonable costs. I've always wondered what happens if, you have £28 in your account, then a direct-debit for £60 fails to go out, resulting in a £30 charge for the direct debit. Is then a further £30 charge applied for going £2 into the red? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey76364 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 exactly £35 for a mass produced letter to tell you that your are over drawn, when you know you already are and then charge you for letting you know, and for the days you are as well!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 True. The charges should be more reasonable. Perhaps they should refund a good percentage, leaving in reasonable costs. I've always wondered what happens if, you have £28 in your account, then a direct-debit for £60 fails to go out, resulting in a £30 charge for the direct debit. Is then a further £30 charge applied for going £2 into the red? yes (This is based on listening to other people I'm fairly good at keeping my bank in the black) In fact, if you go overdrawn and are charged £30 (say) they take the £30 charge but it's not there to take, so they charge another £30. Goes on forever. I presumed they were just refunding the unreasonable part? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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