ManwithSupra Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 So in Brief, They cant introduce it for another 10 years because they don't have the technology. and lots of blah blah blah Happy driving !! Rich Here is the e-mail from downing street. Thank you for taking the time to register your views about road pricing on the Downing Street website. This petition was posted shortly before we published the Eddington Study, an independent review of Britain's transport network. This study set out long-term challenges and options for our transport network. It made clear that congestion is a major problem to which there is no easy answer. One aspect of the study was highlighting how road pricing could provide a solution to these problems and that advances in technology put these plans within our reach. Of course it would be ten years or more before any national scheme was technologically, never mind politically, feasible. That is the backdrop to this issue. As my response makes clear, this is not about imposing "stealth taxes" or introducing "Big Brother" surveillance. This is a complex subject, which cannot be resolved without a thorough investigation of all the options, combined with a full and frank debate about the choices we face at a local and national level. That's why I hope this detailed response will address your concerns and set out how we intend to take this issue forward. I see this email as the beginning, not the end of the debate, and the links below provide an opportunity for you to take it further. But let me be clear straight away: we have not made any decision about national road pricing. Indeed we are simply not yet in a position to do so. We are, for now, working with some local authorities that are interested in establishing local schemes to help address local congestion problems. Pricing is not being forced on any area, but any schemes would teach us more about how road pricing would work and inform decisions on a national scheme. And funds raised from these local schemes will be used to improve transport in those areas. One thing I suspect we can all agree is that congestion is bad. It's bad for business because it disrupts the delivery of goods and services. It affects people's quality of life. And it is bad for the environment. That is why tackling congestion is a key priority for any Government. Congestion is predicted to increase by 25% by 2015. This is being driven by economic prosperity. There are 6 million more vehicles on the road now than in 1997, and predictions are that this trend will continue. Part of the solution is to improve public transport, and to make the most of the existing road network. We have more than doubled investment since 1997, spending £2.5 billion this year on buses and over £4 billion on trains - helping to explain why more people are using them than for decades. And we're committed to sustaining this investment, with over £140 billion of investment planned between now and 2015. We're also putting a great deal of effort into improving traffic flows - for example, over 1000 Highways Agency Traffic Officers now help to keep motorway traffic moving. But all the evidence shows that improving public transport and tackling traffic bottlenecks will not by themselves prevent congestion getting worse. So we have a difficult choice to make about how we tackle the expected increase in congestion. This is a challenge that all political leaders have to face up to, and not just in the UK. For example, road pricing schemes are already in operation in Italy, Norway and Singapore, and others, such as the Netherlands, are developing schemes. Towns and cities across the world are looking at road pricing as a means of addressing congestion. One option would be to allow congestion to grow unchecked. Given the forecast growth in traffic, doing nothing would mean that journeys within and between cities would take longer, and be less reliable. I think that would be bad for businesses, individuals and the environment. And the costs on us all will be real - congestion could cost an extra £22 billion in wasted time in England by 2025, of which £10-12 billion would be the direct cost on businesses. A second option would be to try to build our way out of congestion. We could, of course, add new lanes to our motorways, widen roads in our congested city centres, and build new routes across the countryside. Certainly in some places new capacity will be part of the story. That is why we are widening the M25, M1 and M62. But I think people agree that we cannot simply build more and more roads, particularly when the evidence suggests that traffic quickly grows to fill any new capacity. Tackling congestion in this way would also be extremely costly, requiring substantial sums to be diverted from other services such as education and health, or increases in taxes. If I tell you that one mile of new motorway costs as much as £30m, you'll have an idea of the sums this approach would entail. That is why I believe that at least we need to explore the contribution road pricing can make to tackling congestion. It would not be in anyone's interests, especially those of motorists, to slam the door shut on road pricing without exploring it further. It has been calculated that a national scheme - as part of a wider package of measures - could cut congestion significantly through small changes in our overall travel patterns. But any technology used would have to give definite guarantees about privacy being protected - as it should be. Existing technologies, such as mobile phones and pay-as-you-drive insurance schemes, may well be able to play a role here, by ensuring that the Government doesn't hold information about where vehicles have been. But there may also be opportunities presented by developments in new technology. Just as new medical technology is changing the NHS, so there will be changes in the transport sector. Our aim is to relieve traffic jams, not create a "Big Brother" society. I know many people's biggest worry about road pricing is that it will be a "stealth tax" on motorists. It won't. Road pricing is about tackling congestion. Clearly if we decided to move towards a system of national road pricing, there could be a case for moving away from the current system of motoring taxation. This could mean that those who use their car less, or can travel at less congested times, in less congested areas, for example in rural areas, would benefit from lower motoring costs overall. Those who travel longer distances at peak times and in more congested areas would pay more. But those are decisions for the future. At this stage, when no firm decision has been taken as to whether we will move towards a national scheme, stories about possible costs are simply not credible, since they depend on so many variables yet to be investigated, never mind decided. Before we take any decisions about a national pricing scheme, we know that we have to have a system that works. A system that respects our privacy as individuals. A system that is fair. I fully accept that we don't have all the answers yet. That is why we are not rushing headlong into a national road pricing scheme. Before we take any decisions there would be further consultations. The public will, of course, have their say, as will Parliament. We want to continue this debate, so that we can build a consensus around the best way to reduce congestion, protect the environment and support our businesses. If you want to find out more, please visit the attached links to more detailed information, and which also give opportunities to engage in further debate. Yours sincerely, Tony Blair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I have never seen someone talk out of their ass so eloquently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 He's just bleating on about how difficult it is for them to work these things out, with the budget they have there are countless issues with how to divide it up and that these things have to be done to pay for everything - but it still seems like it's brainwashing to sidestep the issue that it won't make a blind bit of difference to the amount of driving people do!! I would gladly accept road pricing as a way to prevent congestion if there was an alternative to using your car!! I'm sure it works brilliantly in Italy, Norway and Singapore, but then their public transport works brilliantly as well! I'd take the train to work every day if I lived in Holland because I know it'll always be there when they say it will and I'm less likely to get beaten up by hoodies over there (unless you're English of course!! ). The real answer to preventing congestion is to get the road system working properly, I know of several places that I drive regularly where the traffic lights could be improved, and I'm sure most people on here could give some suggestions for thier own drives to work. My average speed over a week is 22mph....... 22!!!! When the hell does anyone drive at 22mph? There are 11 sets of traffic lights on the 3 mile stretch of road between my house and work. Why are there traffic lights on roundabouts? I'm sure it wouldn't cost £30m per mile to remove traffic lights!! Sort out the roads and public transport alternatives, Mr Blair. Then give us the choice of paying to drive or getting out to walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 A decent response... he didnt have to say jack shit at the end of the day did he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 It's just a Nigerian Scam email... http://www.b3tards.com/u/a609ede35986cfd048a1/blair-email.gif Sorry for the crop, not my doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 If he wants to combat congestion then use the frigging money we pay on petrol duty and road tax to build some feckin roads! Make me Prime Minister and I'll dual every A road, make freight travel only between 12am and 6am or put it back on the trains/canals!! Tractors will be made to travel only across fields and never on a road and caravans will be made illegal! Cyclists will be forced to get the fuck off the pavements and get some bastard lights on at night! Councils will be shot if they continue to put in traffic calming measures, speed cameras will be scrapped and Nissan will be forced to stop making twatting Micras! Old people will be made to retake their test every hour (that'll keep the urine-soaked giffers off the roads) and failed every time they do! Vote for me - it's a vote for the car!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleland Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 You got my vote. ps have you sorted the supra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Ellis! I'd like to see some HOV lanes in this country, double decker trains and motorways around congestion hotspots, instead of building more roads, why not just build ontop of those that already exist -I mean we're not exactly in an earthquake hotspot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'd like to see less spent on blowing up the middle east and more money spend on viable alternatives to the car. But this isn't about congestion really is it, it's about raising money to clear government debts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 You got my vote. ps have you sorted the supra? In a word - no!! Its just been dismantled as we speak - the engine's going back down to whence it came for testing as its shat 2 crank seals so far! Hoping to get it sorted out totally in the next 4 weeks or so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 D'Oh, I've just posted about this - in Off Topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angarak Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Part of the solution is to improve public transport, and to make the most of the existing road network. We have more than doubled investment since 1997, spending £2.5 billion this year on buses and over £4 billion on trains... ...and they still dont run on time! He doesnt mention the total raised from Road Tax, Fuel Tax, Speed Cameras and Congestion Zones....and how much of that total is invested back into the roads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angarak Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 If he wants to combat congestion then use the frigging money we pay on petrol duty and road tax to build some feckin roads! Make me Prime Minister and I'll dual every A road, make freight travel only between 12am and 6am or put it back on the trains/canals!! Tractors will be made to travel only across fields and never on a road and caravans will be made illegal! Cyclists will be forced to get the fuck off the pavements and get some bastard lights on at night! Councils will be shot if they continue to put in traffic calming measures, speed cameras will be scrapped and Nissan will be forced to stop making twatting Micras! Old people will be made to retake their test every hour (that'll keep the urine-soaked giffers off the roads) and failed every time they do! Vote for me - it's a vote for the car!! \vote Ellis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'd like to see less spent on blowing up the middle east and more money spend on viable alternatives to the car. But this isn't about congestion really is it, it's about raising money to clear government debts... Indeed! Another point is that its our government and councils that are creating this bloody congestion in the first place. Take around Lincoln for instance - over the past few years the council has given permission for every Tom, Dick and Harry builder to slap bloody great estates everywhere, not just in the city but in all the surrounding villages too. So the amount of people travelling into and through the city is far greater than it ever was. However, our council in its infinite wisdom, has taken to narrowing every road at every opportunity - speed bumps are everywhere, lanes have been removed, traffic lights added every 10 yards and traffic has begun to gridlock every day. No measures have been taken to manage the extra traffic - instead they have sought to increase the mayhem. Now why would they do that? Oh yes, inner city congestion charging! It's where we're heading too and mark my words, they'll introduce it here as soon as they've fucked the traffic up enough. They created this problem in the first place but we're the ones that'll be expected to bend over and take it up the tailpipe with more costs for the motorist. We're an easy target and exploited at every opportunity. Councils encourage businesses to relocate to industrial estates and out of town developments meaning more of us cannot use public transport to get to and from work so we have to use the car! So they penalise us again! It's time for a change folks - time for action! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey76364 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I got this email... to be honest i gave up reading 1/2 way through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I dont mind paying to use my car thats fine by me but only if they dont charge for the normal tax disk and they put the money into sorting out our roads as they are pants. Why dont they increase the tax on petrol then that hits the "gas guzzilers" as well as the people who avoid tax as even they have to fill up, and it will reduce travel as people will try to save petrol, this of course ends up reserving our natual resorces and helping the enviorment. So just to sum up 1) better roads 2) No one avoids Tax 3) Less fuel being used so better envioment 4) More people will think about taking public transport. Vote me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I have never seen someone talk out of their ass so eloquently. You don't spend enough time on here then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonW Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Started riding my bike to work about 6 weeks ago (approx 2.5miles each way). I get to work in around about the same time as it takes by car. Luckily it's all cycle paths so I'm not creating traffic by riding on roads. The best thing is on the way home I pass all the nice cars sat in traffic and get home about 10 minutes quicker than I used to. So I've 1 - Saved Petrol Money 2 - Contibuted to saving the environment 3 - Done excercise 4 - reduced traffic on the roads 5 - Stopped using a 3 ltr car for such a short journey I would highly recommend it to anyone that lives close enough to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Yeah I walk to work (around 1.5miles) but will be getting a bike for the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraStormRising Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 You got my vote ellis At least it looks like we're all gonna be safe from this stupid idea for at least 10 years as long as they arn't bu*#+*iting us all into a false sense of security... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 School traffic is the biggest cause of congestion around my route to work most days.. sort that shit out first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveL Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 School traffic is the biggest cause of congestion around my route to work most days.. sort that shit out first! Bobbeh for Prime Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I have never seen someone talk out of their ass so eloquently. That's what politicians do. They must take exams in it. Councils encourage businesses to relocate to industrial estates and out of town developments meaning more of us cannot use public transport to get to and from work so we have to use the car! So they penalise us again! Telford is one big industrial and commercial site. My 15min trip to work would take 90mins by bus with a change + 15min walking. They planned the whole New Town concept around everyone having a car! Now everyone has a car it's suddenly not such a great idea. One of the major concepts was that the "Telford road system was designed to get from any area of town to another in less than 10mins." School traffic is the biggest cause of congestion around my route to work most days.. sort that shit out first! I live in the proximity of 5 schools. When it's school holidays the whole of Telford frees up with hardly any queues anywhere. It's really quite amazing the difference. More school buses are needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4RK RZ Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Not wanting to lower the interlect in this thread but...... Those fat goverment sods can all kiss my shiney red ass - Income tax, car tax, petrol tax, per mile tax (COS THATS WHAT IT BLOODY IS !!) Give me a good bus/train service (from the tax I already pay) and i'll get on the dam thing with pleasure!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Give me a good bus/train service (from the tax I already pay) and i'll get on the dam thing with pleasure!! I fucking won't!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.