imi Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Not necessarily. It's all about pressure drop you see. Any FMIC is going to have a stonking great big water rad behind it. This causes the air flowing through the FMIC to get kinda hit a brick wall. A SMIC, even without the perfect ducting, has a nice big low pressure region behind it, sucking the air through. Even if the ducting around the turbo isn't the best, some air is going to get pulled through. The VERY difficult thing to do is quantify the pro's and con's of each, but without suitable testing, it's not really fair to say X is better than Y. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I like SMICs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelfill Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I have to say that I personally think that I'd rather maintain a free flow of air to the radiator rather than block it with a FMIC. But I do wonder what Horsepower the CW SMIC can support, before we'd have to go FMIC. I've often wondered whether it would be possible to have 2 SMICs, one in each inlet but I imagine the pipework would be interesting. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I remember CW saying that it should be good for 500bhp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I remember CW saying that it should be good for 500bhp CW SMIC works for me and Tony is going to use one on his Blitz kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I remember CW saying that it should be good for 500bhp But to be honest, there hasn't been any conclusive testing one way or the other. I'm going to test one, simply because in my eyes it's the best constructed SMIC, and I don't want the comprimises that a FMIC gives. However, I can't say with any facts that it's going to be the correct choice. Hopefully I'll be able to tell you in three weeks time if it can handle my blits kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I have to say that I personally think that I'd rather maintain a free flow of air to the radiator rather than block it with a FMIC. But I do wonder what Horsepower the CW SMIC can support, before we'd have to go FMIC. I've often wondered whether it would be possible to have 2 SMICs, one in each inlet but I imagine the pipework would be interesting. Mike I have thought a lot about this. What would happen if you didn't have an intercooler at all? Would the flow density be so low that it would cause detonation? Is it the pressure drop accross an undersized intercooler that causes turbo surge that's the problem? Npnpdy has been able to definitively answer these questiions, which is the reason why I've gone for a SMIC, as if it doesn't cause a problem for the above questions then I see it as the best comprimise. I have also considered some kind of twin intercooler. I've thought about a standard / uprated SMIC, with some kind of charge cooling / heat-sink type intercooler, that runs where the lateral inlet pipe does at the bottom of the engine bay (Just behind the rad) But again quanitfying the efficiency would be a nightmare.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I think considering the state of some peoples knackered old SMICs, a lot of people have effectively been running with no intercooler at all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 But to be honest, there hasn't been any conclusive testing one way or the other. I'm going to test one, simply because in my eyes it's the best constructed SMIC, and I don't want the comprimises that a FMIC gives. However, I can't say with any facts that it's going to be the correct choice. Hopefully I'll be able to tell you in three weeks time if it can handle my blits kit Let me save you some time and let you know that it will not work Tony. Maybe I am wrong but I would be willing to bet you £20 that it will not be efficient enough for your application. It might work with some water/meth injection but I seriously doubt it will work on it's own with the twin kit you have now. If it does it will be severely limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 been thinking about the issues raised, in particular the radiator blocking and performance enhancement issue or lack of it. Rad: The more i think about this the more it worries me, i am to believe that one of the most essential functions of an engine is the ability for it to keep cool, which i'm under the impression the radiator does a lot to assist in. isnt blocking the rad of with a front mouth a bit risky? i mean, there’s a reason why Toyotas IC is a side mount, so it doesn’t interfere with the effectiveness / efficiency of the radiator I presume? What I really want to know is how badly does a FMIC like the greddy 2 row affect the performance of the engine, is it not a little dangerous? Joe, do you have problems with over heating? Or do you use a different rad set up on your car? I presume your car would be a perfect example of whether or not a FMIC has any detrimental effects of flow as you car is highly tuned and therefore produces more heat Performance of IC Isn’t the performance of an item simply measured upon the effectiveness of its ability to perform its job? i presume that the only point of an intercooler is to cool the charged air? so cant the aftermarket IC be measured on the charge temp going in vs the charge temp going out of the intercooler? in comparison to stock? Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 I would be willing to bet you £20 that it will not be efficient enough for your application. You cant be that confident then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Matt I have not one problem at all with overheating, I never have. The air has to pass through my IC, then my aircon rad, then my Fluidyne rad which has a shroud on it and twin electric fans. My fans are always on but I only do this as a precaution, I did have them wired up to the thermo but as I have an uprated alternator I am not worried about electrical drain. I will say that my IC sits flush with my Do Luck nose and as such it needs no extra ducting, I also have the rad plate to assist with airflow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 You cant be that confident then! Don't be fooled, them F1 guys make less than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Matt I have not one problem at all with overheating, I never have. The air has to pass through my IC, then my aircon rad, then my Fluidyne rad which has a shroud on it and twin electric fans. Fitting an aftermarket rad has been the way to mask/fix this issue for a long time, normal driving would not normally show up an issue and for drag racing it would be ok too as its only a short run. Trackdays are when you are most likely to see an issue as the car spends alot of time at high load and engine speed. There is lots of information on SF in the road racing section regarding cooling etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Has anybody here removed the OEM oil/water cooler and gone for a large oil/air cooler to reduce some load on the cooling system? I know people have fitted oil/air coolers but has anyone removed the OEM part whilst doing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I have an oil cooler fitted in the passenger duct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Fitting an aftermarket rad has been the way to mask/fix this issue for a long time, normal driving would not normally show up an issue and for drag racing it would be ok too as its only a short run. Trackdays are when you are most likely to see an issue as the car spends alot of time at high load and engine speed. There is lots of information on SF in the road racing section regarding cooling etc That is fine if you plan on doing track days but let's be honest how many here actually do trackdays. I do not, if I did it would only be for a laugh and a few laps anyway. If you are building your car to do trackdays then fine, you would also remove the aircon rad too I assume. I have never had any problems on rolling roads with overheating and my car has done many runs during tuning and the number of RR days I have been to. The airflow from fans at these facilities are less then ideal and no where near how it would be on the road so I would think with heatsoak and the less than ideal airflow I would show sings of overheating but I do not. I have also done my fair share of high speed motorway runs and have never had my temp go over the halfway mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I know what your saying Gamer. I'm dubious about it myself, hence the back-up plan. Once it's all together I do plan on doing a number of track-days, so cooling is an issue for me. There's a big difference to the amount of heat generated during circuit racing to that generated by drag racing / high speed motorway running. I guess the closest thing would be a poorly cooled dyno, but you still wouldn't have the car on the rollers for 30 mins at constant full blat would you? All I'm thinking is I would rather not accept the comprimises that a FMIC has. If I need to, then fair enough. I personally think, the net result will be, that I'll see a reduced BHP figures, but as I'm not looking for any particular figure, and I think there will be other limiting factors before the IC becomes the "weakest link", I'm not too worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Fair enough mate, it will be interesting to see how much the SMIC can take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 Matt I have not one problem at all with overheating, I never have. The air has to pass through my IC, then my aircon rad, then my Fluidyne rad which has a shroud on it and twin electric fans. My fans are always on but I only do this as a precaution, I did have them wired up to the thermo but as I have an uprated alternator I am not worried about electrical drain. I will say that my IC sits flush with my Do Luck nose and as such it needs no extra ducting, I also have the rad plate to assist with airflow. that will do me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Has anybody here removed the OEM oil/water cooler and gone for a large oil/air cooler to reduce some load on the cooling system? I know people have fitted oil/air coolers but has anyone removed the OEM part whilst doing this? That's a very good idea, the extra load on the water cooling from the oil to water heat exchanger is considerable. I do this on Skyline engines and it works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Do all Supra have the oil/water cooler from stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk-rich Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 That's a very good idea, the extra load on the water cooling from the oil to water heat exchanger is considerable. I do this on Skyline engines and it works fine. i think its also us a as a oil heater (for cold start/conditions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Do all Supra have the oil/water cooler from stock? Yes they do, Wes. Witha bit of fabrication you could bin the heat excahnger and fit a nice sandwich plat to a remote cooler, and leave the filter in the stock loaction, AND make some extra space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Chris, did you leave mine in place when you fitted my oil cooler in the passenger side duct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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