RobSheffield Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Not in the manifold then Chris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Tubular manifolds are very thin Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelfill Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Nope, it's a middle of the centre section of the exhaust jobby -Ian oh bollocks I asked Envy to fit mine, and Kev fitted it in the first Decat - about half way down. Is this a big NoNo then? Does this mean I am going to be replacing AFR Sensors faster than tyres ? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Tubular manifolds are very thin Rob. Oh dear....mine appears to be drilled tapped and have an adaptor that fits my Defi on the manifold runner from cylinder one, quite close to the flange - about 1 cm out in fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 oh bollocks I asked Envy to fit mine, and Kev fitted it in the first Decat - about half way down. Is this a big NoNo then? Does this mean I am going to be replacing AFR Sensors faster than tyres ? Mike The AEM one recommends fitting the sensor at least 36 inches from the exhaust port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelfill Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Oh great. I'm glad I took the 300 mile round trip for that then:( Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 oh bollocks I asked Envy to fit mine, and Kev fitted it in the first Decat - about half way down. Is this a big NoNo then? Does this mean I am going to be replacing AFR Sensors faster than tyres ? Mike afaik that's the standard place to put them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelfill Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 .... The turbos are massive heat absorbers, and act as thermal dampers. ... maybe these will help protect my AFR probe Sorry for going off topic. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 maybe these will help protect my AFR probe Sorry for going off topic. Mike I believe the correct place is the second decat pipe, but as long as its not in the top of the single turbo DP or right next to the twins i suppose that is good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra matt Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Drill and tap the turbine housing of the turbo, centrally, close to its flange where the manifold bolts up, unless it's a divided housing. just fitting my single now and need to do my egt probe ,the turbo dose have a divided housing ! do i just put it one side or the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 There is obviously going to be a time lag factor even if the sensor is placed in the manifold next to a port, and unless you have a very quick responding sensor, the damage will already be done by the time its noticed, so in the end they are all just an indication of in cylinder temps, even putting one next to the port you will only get an indication of just one cylinder anyway, if you want to really get an accurate reading apart from what Chris has mentioned, you need a sensor in each port runner, i have a gauge that is capable of that but only four:rolleyes: I did have a sensor in the down pipe just after the std lambda, and have now got it in the no 1 turbo exhaust housing which gives a mix of three cylinders, an so far the difference in temps between the two positions is a lot closer than expected around 80C and yes my sensors are Inclonel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra matt Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Hi mate hows thing's? so your saying you only se a 80 c difference in the down pipe to the turdo ? if so think ill go with the down pipe as i only got a cheap sencer and dont fancy it taking out my turbo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Hi mate hows thing's? so your saying you only se a 80 c difference in the down pipe to the turdo ? if so think ill go with the down pipe as i only got a cheap sencer and dont fancy it taking out my turbo! Well thats just my experience Matt, and i have got good quality inclonel sensors, i was allowing 100-150C when i had the sensor in the down pipe,which i guess gives a good safety margin, so unless you get a good quality sensor i wouldn't risk it mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra matt Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 well this is the sencer i got ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Trouble is, you can't tell if they are inclonel sheathed just by looking at them, have you any spec sheets for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Pixelfill the first decat is ideally abit to hot as the when they get cooked they give lean readings but its not heat that kills the wideband sensors its condensation on a cold start up. Over time the moisture just kills the sensor and they dont just stop dead they give false reading first which are all over the place. If you worried about the heat which i would be if i wanted a accurate reading for tuning then i would invest in one of these http://www.grahamgoode.com/general/products.php?partno=INN3729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 You could be flash and use multiple sensors. I bit the bullet on my Toyota engine in my Zeus and it runs 4 EGT probes that are logged by the dash. http://www.chriswilson.tv/toyota.jpg And before anyone says anything I have got rid of the none woven blue silicone hoses. The pic was taken soon after I bought the car and before i had time to sort the hoses It now has Gates rubber hoses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheefa Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 You could be flash and use multiple sensors. I bit the bullet on my Toyota engine in my Zeus and it runs 4 EGT probes that are logged by the dash. http://www.chriswilson.tv/toyota.jpg And before anyone says anything I have got rid of the none woven blue silicone hoses. The pic was taken soon after I bought the car and before i had time to sort the hoses It now has Gates rubber hoses. Chris, The issue around where best to mount the AFR sensor has come up multiple times now. Some say as nearer to the Turbo as possible in the first downpipe (Phoenix and Envy seem to fit theirs there) and others as mentioned above say further down towards the mid section. I have mine mounted in the downpipe, just renewed the O2 sensor and am seeing an ever so slightly rich reading. Is my reading off, should I look to relocate which would be a PITA to say the least as I'd have to weld up or bung the downpipe? Cheers, Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I was taliking of EGT sensors, and that's what the pic is in my post. The nearer the manifold / turbo you get the sensor the faster it will get up to temp. At the sort of EGT's a normal healthy turbo road engine will (should...) run you can mount the AFR probe as near to the turbo exhaust outlet as you like. Have the probe tip pointing down slightly, and not upside down or with the wiring end lower than the tip, and you'll be fine. It should give the same readings, once warm, anywhere from the ports, turbo outlet, up to about 18 inches from the exhaust tail pipe. Quite how you know the sensor is reading slightly rich i don't see? Have you compared it to a calibrated one, or are are you using calibration gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheefa Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Chris, Thanks, sorry for moving slightly off-topic onto AFRs than the above. AFRs were monitored using a standalone calibrated sensor. It reads around 14.5-15 on idle, but occasionally drops into the 12's. On boost, there's a slight hesitancy, but then drops into the very low 11's/high 10's where it stays throughout the range. I'm thinking I could have a faulty ECU as the O2 sensor has been replaced already and that improved matters, quite a bit too. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdDaMan Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 at the end of the day its not imperitave where an egt goes as you still gona get a constant reading weather thats very high or very low...so you know what your normal reading is whereever its located and you will know the day when it goes above that normal reading. do i make sense? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheefa Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 do i make sense? lol NO, and aren't you the guy who was banging on about his Sunny being a cut above the rest? I'd like the opinion and advice of an expert please, hence I directed my particular question at Chris, although it was specifically regarding AFR gauges, not EGTs. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Whilst an AFR gauge is a very useful instrument I think, like having a thermometer in the medicine chest at home, it can cause an almost paranoiac effect, and people start imagining terrible problems where none exist. If you get safe AFR's and EGT's at wide open throttle, and resonable AFR's at cruise and idle, that's fine. Like a slightly elevated body temperature leads some people to reach for the tropical diseases book, so the odd AFR reading can cause others to want to interrogate Mr Toyota on his mapping prowess, and buy a Super AFC and show him how it SHOULD be done If it's stopped smoking, has new turbos and runs without any dramas just enjoy the thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 LOL nice bit of sensible perspective there Chris:) totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheefa Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Thanks Chris, would like to enjoy it but its for sale soon ! See massive debt thread! Thanks for the advice though. I've also just had the Valve Stem Peaks done too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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