Suprash Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Originally posted by Barry Before I had the hybrids fitted, it was #2 that went on mine! Thats as about as usefull as my dick after 10 pints of Stella ......we need Hybrid mod info, not stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Originally posted by Ashley Willis Sorry mate, my point was do we know if there is a trend with any of these mods, in the cases where no.1 has failed, but then you have already pointed that at Darren, Steve and MFS So if your hybrid no1 turbo has failed, have you got any mods on the exhaust gas bypass valve system, that's the question. The second turbo would always end up producing the same amount of boost or it would get overrun by the first backfeeding through it. If the second turbo doesn't get a runup you may lose some boost and performance while it has to spin up fighting against the pressure of turbo 1. That could account for people not feeling #2 come in until 5000rpm or thereabouts. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Paul that is just a cop out by George. Both my sets ran that way, were driven hard, and are still going strong years later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I think when buying Hybrids you have to remember that they are a proffesional bodge. Their broken turbos, fixed up. Their not like a single thats been developed and tested through a tunning company. So that comes down to whats already been said, how well its built. I think people should maybe take this on board a little more and to see them for what they are before deciding. *Anyway todays pop quiz, who will be the most worried Surpa owner you know next week, answers on a postcard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Terry - Perhaps you could talk to him and get his side too - I would be interested in your views on his comments on those he has had back Ash - these are not a bodge - hybrids are professionaly improved rebuilt with far better internals - basically just using the external build for better results You shouldn't worry - I have 'had a few words' about the quality control of these - they will be the most checked turbos ever believe me! Anyone have this mod done on whose turbos have failed? Could the actuator failure actually be the main cause of turbo failure in jap spec - rather than the turbos themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Originally posted by Paul E You shouldn't worry - I have 'had a few words' about the quality control of these - they will be the most checked turbos ever believe me! Good point though about atuator/J-spec turbo failing........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE C Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Thanks for your posts guys - With regards to the VSV bypass modification I ran the car in stock sequential mode 99.9% of the time I had a problem with the 2nd turbo (when in stock sequential mode) not coming online at all. I quickly addressed the problem and booked it into my mechanics this was at about 1400 miles on the hybrids. A VSV was replaced I was told the old one was proberly sticking and that the 2nd turbo was now coming online fine. I was also told the car was smoking a little more than it should be on idle and that it could be a turbo problem maybe the carbon seals and if it continued to get worse book it straight back in and the turbos would have to be checked. On the way home when I hit the motorway & tried 2nd turbo & guess what still nothing but I did start to notice a little smoke. I called my mechanic the following day and re-booked 1. Because the 2nd turbo still wouldn’t spool up 2. Was worried about the smoke Before I took it back I bypassed 2 VSV's EGCV & IACV I did this to check if 2nd turbo would come online (To see if it was a VSV problem) This is the only time I changed from the stock sequential system. At no time have my turbos ever over boosted. People run theirs supras in TCC all the time my turbo problems started way before this. I know of a guy who run his j-spec with ceramic turbos all the time like this & has had no probs with his turbos in the last year. The fault lies with the turbo/actuator nothing to do with the TTC I wish it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 My Hybrids were not running any VSV mods just standard sequential. Mine smoked then no 1 died big styly before Leon could have a look at it. It also seems to be a common thing that no1 goes bang so badly that it cannot be rebuilt...probably incorrect tolerances and machining as stated by Terry. Who's George???????!!!!! Someone send the boys round!!! :innocent: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Originally posted by STEVE C Thanks for your posts guys - . The fault lies with the turbo/actuator nothing to do with the TTC I wish it was. You seem to be confused with TTC and the conversion Paul means which increases the amount of boost put out by No1 , IMO these probs are not actuator related but rather a tolerance issue , if the actuators ARE now failing due to age then there will be a lot of unhappy people cause you cant buy em Dude:flame Dev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 IMHO this guy is just using any excuse as a get out of jail free card. He should stand by the product he sells, and if he doesn't the buck will stop with the resellers. Hopefully this is being blown out of all proportion, but there do seem a few too many failures kicking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Originally posted by Terry S IMHO this guy is just using any excuse as a get out of jail free card. He should stand by the product he sells, and if he doesn't the buck will stop with the resellers. Hopefully this is being blown out of all proportion, but there do seem a few too many failures kicking about. Thanks for that further objective input Terry - it adds so much to identifying the potential problem to which we refer ! The bit about the turbo maker has been done to death and already agreed - we have moved on from there Perhaps you could talk to him as suggested as I am sure you would be able to report back with the findings ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Originally posted by Paul E Thanks for that further objective input Terry - it adds so much to identifying the potential problem to which we refer ! The bit about the turbo maker has been done to death and already agreed - we have moved on from there Perhaps you could talk to him as suggested as I am sure you would be able to report back with the findings ? FFS this won't go away just because you want it to. I have told you that I believe it is a tolerance/manufacturing issue, but that obviously doesn't suit. You are selling these things and as such should have specific product knowledge to give an accurate and informed opinion. JPS are standing by what they have sold. Are you. Simple yes or no will probabaly satisfy your customers. Back to tolerances and machining, what is the reason given for the old ones still going strong with no issues, but the later having faults? BTW, why you I talk to the manufacturer for you? Just curious. He obviously doesn't intend covering them, so it seem utterly pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 No squabbling on my manor. We have two issues here: 1. Why are these turbo's failing? Is it an overboost and is that caused by a failed actuator or a dodgy mod to up the boost on the first turbo? 2. Where does the buck stop with the failed turbos? They are all going pop with a low mileage, is it the responsibility of the creator of the hybrids, or is it the responsibility of the person who resold them onto the end user? Concentrate on those, not winding each other up -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Chis I was, just won't accept soppy comments trying to make it look otherwise. You know I am not anti-hybrid. I had good luck with two sets. Both built by the same guy now having the problems. Those sets are still in use and have had masses of abuse, the #1 mod done to them with no issue. My point is why are they failing now, with much less mileage on them. I would like to know if Paul has ever had a problem with a set, if not that then points to an installer fault? Also of the 50+ sets made, how many Paul has sold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I was going to ask this as well, in fact I tried to ask you the other day Paul, but we had a really poor line, well poor hands free speaker phone, my fault. I was going to ask how many sets of Hybrids has John fitted, and how many sets have you had that have had problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Terry - why are you making this personal? I dont want anything to go away - the man asked a question about turbo problems I just asked whether you might talk to him and discuss his theories on why there have been problems outside of the specific turbo remit - thereby helping the whole board? He blames JPS for fitting problems and JPS blames him for turbo manufacture problems I dont know who is right - Perhaps both operations were quieter in the 'old days' when they were one man bands - who knows? Tolerances can not just 'suddenly' appear to be at fault As a precaustion I will not sell hybrids made by him again just in case there is a problem with his QA Regrettably he is able to void any previous verbal guarantees given due this get out clause due to fitting What else is there to say? We are now talking about potential modifcations causing problems / whether actuator failure can cause turbos to malfunction and the role of the EGBV - which will hopefully improves my knowledge - as you so rightly pointed out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I am sorry - but I am out of this thread I am very happy to talk to anyone about those supplied and the new supplier - please call me direct But find this lack of objectivity and so obvious partisan comments a worthless contribution to what might have been an interesting exploration of the potential problems surrounding these failures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Originally posted by Paul E and so obvious partisan comments Mate, keep it on my level...... .....Whats that mean....????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Paul you have left the thread without answering any of the poignant questions though: How many sets have you sold? How Many, if any have problems? Are you giving a Warranty with those already sold? Masterful body swerve though You made this personal. I was expressing my experiences and opinions on hybrids "Thanks for that further objective input Terry - it adds so much to identifying the potential problem to which we refer !" Just because you don't necessarily agree with the opinion there is no need to act that way. Tolerances, of course the bloody tolerances can suddenly be at fault. If they are wrong, the tolerance on a hybrid are so tight there will be a catastrophic failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I'm trying to read between lines here so can someone clear this up for me. The way I see it the situation is this: One person makes the hybrid turbos and sells them to Paul and Leon (do they sell to anyone else as well?) They have made 50+ sets since Terry got his fitted a few years back. Suddenly a lot of turbo 1's are failing. Aside from clarifying the above I'd say next we have to see if there is a common factor aside from the turbo supplier. This would be - age of turbo (both in time in case it's a bad batch, and in miles in case it's an artificially short lifespan), and turbo 1 mods, and who fitted them. A change in tolerances would indeed cause turbo failure or severely shortened lifespan, and a sudden change in tolerances can come about by worn equipment or simply a mistake on behalf of the builder in setting up some tooling. The claim of actuators failing needs investigation because no-one has reported a failed actuator on stock turbos yet... And it would be simple to test the actuator if anyone has a suspected failure, that would certainly sort out if anyone is telling porkies... -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 That is exactly the situation Ian. All recent reputed failures of the Hybrids have been from the same manufacturer used by both Paul and JPS. That is why the quantity and problems that Paul has sold or experienced is extremly relevant, as is the fact that this is a relatively recent thing and that much older units are going strong still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Well, if the supplier reckons the actuator has failed in every case then all we need to do is test the actuators on these failed turbos, see if they work or not! If anyone has one handy, all they need is a Tee, some vac hose, and a passenger -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 The last set leon had back was blamed on an actuator fault by the hybrid manufacturer. Leon tested it, then had it verified independantly, both results showed it was fine. Seems too much of a convenient coincedence that the failing actuators seem to appearing on hybrid cars. There are other makes of hybrids available as you know. Anyone ever had an issue with hybrids not sourced from JPS or Miami GT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Ian - By separate and unrelated recommendation (it was actually Dave) I have used the same supplier as Leon - and have sold only two sets - one of which has been fitted and is fine I have another set on mine - which is fine after 7 months These have been fitted by Dude The problems described above have occurred with those that have been supplied & fitted by JPS...who fitted out Terry's car... who is also interested in selling his single turbos... Mmmm...no comment We have discussed my supply / warranties / future supply of turbos on another thread in the miami-gt section... The problem could be a fault with any number of areas - INCLUDING the tolerances being wrong - that is why I have sourced another supplier. I am unsure why my integrity in trying to supply a product has been called into question I am not privy to JPS policy on this or would lay the blame at their feet for any failures that might have occurred - I do not have any answers - I am just asking the questions to try and help people in the future I wanted to expore if there is correlation between actuator problems and stock turbos - which might explain the unexpected demise of turbos both stock and hybrid And in the process learn more about the workings of the system to be able to advise people more fully :thumbs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 So you've never had a problem Paul? And BTW, stop being so bloody silly. You want to sell the BL kits (or have you taken them off your site now) http://miami-gt.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=20&products_id=104&osCsid=9f68e729f9846c89ecb0f5a476ea7f5e, not JPS. They are fitting a customer supplied one. You seem intent on keeping this personal. I do not understand your reluctance in answering very straight forward and relevant questions. The average person on here needs to read this and make an informed decision. Read the thread title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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