Syed Shah Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by Paul Laing So is RLTC anything like stock TC, that cuts the power to the wheels so much it's terrible!!! Also some people on here have crashed with RLTC, so it doesn't help everyone it seems. Paul RLTC acts FAR quicker, and only cuts the power your not making use of (spinning types, not benefical to going fast, when was the last time you saw an F1 car drifting round a corner?). It aids consistency, and if it helps top race driver, it has to be some use to us? I can't comment on particular crashes, but perhaps one downfall of RLTC is a excess sense of security and condfidence? More user error than a TC fault. It helps you get closer to the edge, not break the laws of physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Dunno m8 all I have been told from various quarters is that RLTC is a far more intelligent system than stock TC. The fact that its design is at least 5-8 years more advanced if not more than the stock TC. The software advances in that time frame are astronomical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Laing Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by dangerous brain Dunno m8 all I have been told from various quarters is that RLTC is a far more intelligent system than stock TC. The fact that its design is at least 5-8 years more advanced if not more than the stock TC. The software advances in that time frame are astronomical. And i bet the people who told you this are the ones selling you it, and people who have bought RLTC.....? This is like any other thread, some say the stock 17s are best for the Supra (10 year design), and that new wider 19s ruin the Supra, yet you rubbish the (Toyota) TC and say RLTC is better, mmmm right! So basically when it suits people Toyota did things best is that right? Not very consistent...... Syed, cheers for the info. I'll have to experience it for myself, it's just if your going that mad for the TC to kick in round a corner, you have probably lost it anyway! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by Paul Laing And i bet the people who told you this are the ones selling you it, and people who have bought RLTC.....? This is like any other thread, some say the stock 17s are best for the Supra (10 year design), and that new wider 19s ruin the Supra, yet you rubbish the (Toyota) TC and say RLTC is better, mmmm right! So basically when it suits people Toyota did things best is that right? Not very consistent...... Syed, cheers for the info. I'll have to experience it for myself, it's just if your going that mad for the TC to kick in round a corner, you have probably lost it anyway! Paul I never at any point said that 19" wheels ruined a supra. I tend to keep an open mind about nearly everything and wont just dismiss things out of hand. I am a fussy git when it comes to wheels and personally I like the look of the stock wheels. I would prefer mine in chrome but that again is a style choice. In regards to going to 19" there are several pro's and cons to this. Some of the extra handling ability you get by tightening things up you lose when being jolted on uneven surfaces. Getting any car right is a balancing act. And one mans right is another mans totally wrong. The toyota TC is soooo wonderfull that the first thing a lot of people do is take out the fuse for it and disable it totally! Wheel design has come on leaps and bounds, as has exhaust technology, turbo technology, brakes technology, the list is endless so it stands to reason that a newer developement in traction control might just be a tad better than the original?? If people that actually have RLTC cannot be relied upon to verify its abilities then seriously who can we trust:sly: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Laing Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Thats fair enough, if everyone had the same opinions it would be a boring world...... But if i'd spent £600+ on RLTC i'd never slate it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by Paul Laing But if i'd spent £600+ on RLTC i'd never slate it If it didnt do what it said on the sodding box I bloody would lol:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by Paul Laing But if i'd spent £600+ on RLTC i'd never slate it Or 2k on 19s Seriously mate, ask someone with it to take you out for a spin at a meet, its good stuff. Term obviously likes it as an experienced driver, and I am pretty sure CW rates it as well, and he is probably the best driver on the forum. Yet threads like this are good, as it lets people appreciate than RLTC is not the answer to everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attilauk Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by dangerous brain If it didnt do what it said on the sodding box I bloody would lol:p PMSL:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Laing Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Alot of new cars run 19s, the Audi RS6, some new Porsche's have them etc and they all have over 400bhp so the Supra is no different. I bought these wheels, then sold them with my old car but then bought them back because i love them and think they look great on the Supra. I had a chance to walk away and buy 18s but chose not to, that must tell you that 19s are fine if you have the right size, offset etc. As for RLTC, i wouldn't mind a go in a Supra with it, but as i said if you push your car to the extreme where it's looking as if your going to loose it then whatever TC you have makes no difference as your away anyway. Just my opinion of course, if you want to go 5mph faster in the rain then by all means RLTC sounds great, but i bet seriously nobodys noticed anything different from the stock TC in the wet. Bye for now Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willson Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 edit - cant be ars*d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by Willson edit - cant be ars*d I am with you all the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willson Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Next you will be saying that fighter aircraft don't need automatic flight control responses to keep them airborne lol!!! Same shit almost same application. Controlling stuff a human cannot possibly manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith C Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 I have had two Supras. Both were UK spec. Both were 6spds. I had the first barely 2 months, having picked it up in November, and didn't even keep it until the new year. I gave it a bit around a wet roundabout, and the back came round (the car had incorrect offset 18's on it all round). Then the stock Trac kicked in, while at about 90 degrees to the road. Had I had it off, I'd have simply gone all the way round. You may be unaware that the UK-sepc Trac doesn't just cut the power, it also brakes the rear wheels. This reduced the wheel speed sufficiently that the rear wheels got grip again. I went straight forward and into the railings at the side of the road. A corner in the railings hit the exact middle of the drivers door, ripping the outer skin open like tin foil. The front of the car was demolished, the rear offside wheel rim tore itself off its spokes and flew along the road - something that can happen to non-manufacturer wheels in accidents. The drivers window smashed and showered glass on my head. The passenger compartment was completely intact, and it was down to the considerable strength of the car and it's design that I walked away unscathed. My current car has stock wheels and tyre sizes. It also came fitted with RLTC, so I didn't have to pay for it. I have been able to take corners and negotiate far wetter roundabouts far faster and harder than I could have dreamt of in the first car, without a murmur or twitch of instability. The system is awesome - it can't break the laws of physics, but it bends them over backwards. Also modern cars have 19's as a result of consumer pressure, and as such their suspension and geometry plans were designed with them in mind. The Supra's was not, and heads out of its designed performance and suspension loading envelopes with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Here speaks a man from the depths of wisdom.. I feel bad for you that you learned this lesson the hard way man. But lessons were learnt and now you have some dodgy bird with another dodgy car to marry to look fwds to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by dangerous brain But lessons were learnt and now you have some dodgy bird with another dodgy car to marry to look fwds to Dodgy???? Thats one of the nicer things said about me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by Faye Dodgy???? Thats one of the nicer things said about me Wondered when u would be along with your tuppence worth!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith C Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by dangerous brain Wondered when u would be along with your tuppence worth!!!! Dunno if she's worth tuppence... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by Keith C Dunno if she's worth tuppence... u should know u bought the ring:eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by Keith C Dunno if she's worth tuppence... Thats you sleeping on the sofa tonight!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Originally posted by Faye Thats you sleeping on the sofa tonight!! Ha HA:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughie Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by Keith C My current car has stock wheels and tyre sizes. It also came fitted with RLTC, so I didn't have to pay for it. knew i shoulda pushed for another few hundred quid ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Paul - RLTC is MUCH better than stock TC - I think you should have a drive of a car which has RLTC then makre your mind up. It doesnt just cut power to the engine like stock TC,RLTC is much much better and is considered as a performance mod - not just a safetly device.Surely if you have a device in your car which allows you to corner faster and increases grip it gives you much more performance as an end result ? We must remember that RLTC can only work with the traction you have - it cannot "create" extra traction for you.Yes I crashed the Supe and I had RLTC but RLTC couldnt have saved me as I had near enough zero grip to start with.Hitting oil at 80 on a already wet greasy road meant there was not much grip for RLTC to work with anyway.Maybe if I was a more experienced driver like Chris W or Termy I may have been able to control the spin,but RLTC didnt work becasue it is rubbish but because it had very little grip for it to work with. Have a go in a car with RLTC dude - you will not know what it can do until you play with it. As for the 19's being fitted on new cars like the Audis and Porkers - well these cars have been set-up for 19's from the manufacturers,this doesnt mean you can just wang 19's on any old car just because the manufacturers have started doing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 This may be my last post in this thread as it is going round in circles. But to a comment on a few points. I don’t consider £500 to be much to spend on mods I spent much more on brakes and more on suspension and why? To try and squeeze a little more performance out of my car. So I certain don’t feel I have to defend RLTC to justify my expenditure. As I have said before if you have loads of track experience or a rally or competition licence then you may feel that RLTC is unnecessary. BTW I would not dream of placing my self anywhere near the driving ability level of Chris Wilson that would be an insult to Chris. It is not just a safety device for the wet, by adjusting the slip you can get much more out of the car in the dry too. You can use it to drive on the edge, but I would recommend being able to do that without any TC first, it just will stop you losing it in a wide range of circumstances, if you make an error of judgement. Having ridden bikes for many years, I feel the car through my arse and like to know what every wheel is doing, so I think I have a pretty good idea where my cars limits are on each corner. I take the point that this can be done with out TC and as I said before should be tried preferably on a test track so you know the limits of the car so that you know where the “edge is”. RLTC just gives a bit more room for human error, and if you want to, stay right on the edge. I like to think I am not a wreckless driver, the only time I have ever lost control of a car on a road was when stock JDM TC robbed me of power and I was no longer in control. RLTC never does that in most circumstance it enable you to stay in control if you get it wrong, a bit like ABS I guess. (Whole new can of worms opened here Actually nothing like ABS. If you have not experienced RLTC you are honestly not qualified to comment on it’s competence as a TC system, as it is just not comparable with the stock JDM or UK system. Quite simply the former are reactive and RLTC is proactive. The fault with the two stock systems is that they operate too late the wheels are spinning too much already. To qualify that for the areas of safety for which they were designed they probably do a reasonable job given the age of the system, but most of us drive beyond these parameters and have tuned the cars beyond the capabilities of the system. RLTC monitors each wheel so many times a second no human on earth could possibly compete. It will cut the odd injector long before the most experienced driver would feel a thing going on at the wheels. The cut in HP is so subtle you don’t feel it. It just helps you take advantage of the grip you have and utilise the limits set by the laws of physics. These arguments come up from time to time. There will always be two sides. I just hope that people considering RLTC are not put off by the arguments and will get along to a meet and see if someone will show them how it works. I hope Matt H wont mind me mentioning it but I never forget the smile on his face, when I was in his car just after we set up his RLTC to work properly the first time. His face said it all. RLTC really works. Anyone who decides get RLTC please pm and I will supply you with the internal program that matches RLTC to you car, I am also happy to get into modification of my files to take the tuning further if anyone feels like experimenting. All of the above is JMHO take it or leave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith C Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 For those thinking they can out-drive RLTC: The average driver can detect and control 15-20% of slip. Michael Schumacher can control down to 10%. RLTC can control down to 1%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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