mkivsupra.net Membership (part copied due to hijacking)

[Keith C]

Originally posted by stealthhosts

Oh and John,

If you are paying £100 per month (as indicated by your example) then give me a call as for that I could give you an 80GB dedicated server with total control and CPANEL for all accounts enabling you to host as many sites as you wish with ~100GB bandwidth.

 

Not a Raq is it?

 

Be interested to know the spec of such a server, seeing as the SXOC BBS just took a 1GB 1.8 Xeon machine and reduced it to a smoking wreck in under 20 minutes, at only 50% of the peak users. Mind you, that shoves out 160GB a month...

 

Moderators are here to moderate the BBS. That's it.

[Faye]

Owning a Supra, means that £10 equates to less than a third of my weekly fuel bill, I don't really care what my membership is used for, I've made good friends from this site and it keeps me sane during the working day.

This may be just an impulsive post after a couple of pints of beer but I really don't think the people who run this board deserve to feel like their efforts aren't appreciated.

[Branners]

if people have a query over the club funds why not approach a moderator directly and ask them to discuss it with the other mods?

 

And yes I do take it personally, I take it personally as I put so much of my time in to this club. Lets say somebody comes up to you and says 'you charge way too much for your hosting, tell me where it all goes cos I dont think its worth it', you going to sit down calmly and go through it ? They then get other customers of yours involved who ask the same question, and then it gets asked again 6 months later, and again and again.

 

I get home from another shit week at work and find the same question sitting there waiting again and I cant be arsed reading it as I fancy a bit of dinner and time with my family (neither of which I have had yet and my son just went to bed) so maybe I should have read all the posts in detail so I apologise if I didnt and I apologise if I had a go unnecessarily.

 

If people want something from the club then feel free to stick your hand up, is there an accountant out there perhaps? Or somebody that can organise the regional BBQs?

 

JB

[Keith C]

Originally posted by Faye

Owning a Supra, means that £10 equates to less than a third of my weekly fuel bill, I don't really care what my membership is used for, I've made good friends from this site and it keeps me sane during the working day.

This may be just an impulsive post after a couple of pints of beer but I really don't think the people who run this board deserve to feel like their efforts aren't appreciated.

 

Only good friends?

[Faye]

Originally posted by Keith C

Only good friends?

 

 

I think this is one thread that could do with being lightened up a bit!!!!!

Hijack away

[Lewis]

Originally posted by Keith C

Not a Raq is it?

 

Be interested to know the spec of such a server, seeing as the SXOC BBS just took a 1GB 1.8 Xeon machine and reduced it to a smoking wreck in under 20 minutes, at only 50% of the peak users. Mind you, that shoves out 160GB a month...

 

Moderators are here to moderate the BBS. That's it.

 

 

Lol - no not a Raq

 

2.4Ghz celeron

Linux redhat (or freebsd)

1GB DDR Ram

1U server

2x 40GB HDD's

 

Bandwidth costs are not how people see them (you cant actually buy bandwidth from an upstream provider at x amount of bits per month) bandwidth is billed in a very complicated way at the 95th %ile - if you want to know more I have some links on the details of %ile billing.

[Timwildman]

I think the tenner is more than worth it;

I've save loads of money through this site,

I've learnt a lot,

Most importantly I've made some friends.

 

The Mod's do a great job.

 

what more can I say.

[Keith C]

Originally posted by stealthhosts

Lol - no not a Raq

 

2.4Ghz celeron

Linux redhat (or freebsd)

1GB DDR Ram

1U server

2x 40GB HDD's

 

Bandwidth costs are not how people see them (you cant actually buy bandwidth from an upstream provider at x amount of bits per month) bandwidth is billed in a very complicated way at the 95th %ile - if you want to know more I have some links on the details of %ile billing.

 

40GB of disk space (I seriously bloody hope that's a mirrored server), but that's still plenty.

 

That CPU would *possibly* cope with this BBS. Maybe. It's the MySQL threads that will drive it into the ground, which means you'll soon end up go out to swap, which means before you know it your load average is through the roof and no-one can use the board.

 

The SXOC shifted from a dual 1.0 P3 machine to a single 2.4 P4, when it was shifting 70-odd GB a month. It drove it into the ground inside 12 hours, and had to be moved again. Single CPU machines are *CRAP* for busy BBS's like this.

[Keith C]

Oh yeah, and you CAN buy bandwidth based on an amount of monthly transfer. It just depends on if the host in question has decent peering, or if they're having to shove everything over transit.

[Lewis]

Please re-read my post, I didn't mention a host, I said from the upstream provider (tier3, pier, LINX etc)

 

How a host sells their bandwidth is entirely up to them, they can sell it in moonrock increments if they wish.

 

I myself also sell bandwidth based on usage in measurement however this is not how it is sold by the upstream providers. The only reason I (and everyone else) converts bandwidth to how many k/m/gb per month is that this is what everyone understands, trying to explain the 95th percentile billing is nigh-on impossible, I shall attempt it though (stick with me):

 

Your bandwidth usage is monitored and a sample taken at regular points (in my case every 3rd second) and then logged. The top 5% of the bandwidth usage that has been logged is ignored totally, the 95th percentile is the highest bandwidth usage left that was logged by the system monitoring tool. This results in measurement based on the following forumla:

Speed(u/d) / Time taken for transfer to complete + average spike - 5% - so you will be billed for a .5mbps line@95th %ile for your general usage in speed & time, not simply amount of data transferred. People seem to get confused with bandwith and datatransfer they are totally different things. So for example, if you download one file at 25mbps for a full day, but the rest of the time your bandwidth is only 0.56mbps you would only be charged for about 0.6mbps despite you using up to a maximum of 25mbps.

 

thats about as simplified as I can make it (and I don't even fully understand it to be truthful).

 

I hope that clarified what I meant - Didn't mean to cause any confusion.

 

 

 

 

EDIT - Going Waaaaayyyyy off topic here now. I hadn't seen your previous post:

A single CPU is MORE than adequate to cope. After taking a look at the previous providers of the sx website it becomes apparent why they had problems. They were using virtual shared hosting (see enclosed image).There site in fact seems to be down even now??

Mysqldaemon regularly handles 10,000+ uid simultaneous threads on the boxes I have running. All of our boxes are also expandable so if a single CPU wasn't enough we would simply increase (all boxes support dual CPU) we are also looking into the possiblity of purchasing some 64bit machines to enable faster on-board bus transfer (it is in the early stages at the moment but I think we will purchase some test boxes).

Sorry, I don't want to fill up this thread with more stuff but I am happy to discuss it further if you want to start a thread or email/pm me.

 

 

[Lewis]

oops

[TLicense]

I must admit I have wondered what happened to the subscriptions, but just figured that it was spent on hosting, cards, stickers etc as mentioned by John. Most members (me included) have no idea as to the costs of these things, and I have no intention of askling people to justify what happens. As has also been mentioned I'm happy with the what I get for my subscription, as I'm sure most people are.

 

With regards to organising events and socials. Errm don't we organise loads of these? Take a look in the events forum. Just because we don't put up the now becoming infamous gazeebo, doesn't mean it's not a club meeting does it?

 

I personally would like to see a forum where members can suggest things for the club. I think it would have to carefully moderated so only constructive posts are put up.

 

I think the idea of maybe a "anual newsletter" post would be ideal. Maybe mentioning events that the club intend to go to like ten of the best/JAE etc, and also social events like summer bbq and christmas party.

 

If the what happens to the subs question keeps coming up and pissing people off, then an annual newsletter post would be an ideal place to mention something. That way there would be no need for posts like this.

 

If the newsletter post does happen I would personally like to see it a read only thread or quite heavily moderated, so that it doesn't get inundated (sp) with questions about events. As these should be dealt with in their own dedicated forum.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Regards

[Tannhauser]

Just to add to the hijack:

 

Originally posted by Keith C

That CPU would *possibly* cope with this BBS. Maybe. It's the MySQL threads that will drive it into the ground, which means you'll soon end up go out to swap, which means before you know it your load average is through the roof and no-one can use the board.

 

The SXOC shifted from a dual 1.0 P3 machine to a single 2.4 P4, when it was shifting 70-odd GB a month. It drove it into the ground inside 12 hours, and had to be moved again. Single CPU machines are *CRAP* for busy BBS's like this.

 

and....

 

 

Quel CPU * possibilmente * farebbe fronte a questo BBS. Forse. It's i filetti che lo guideranno in terra, che significa estremità che di you'll presto in su escono scambiare, che di MySQL significa prima che lo conosciate la vostra media del carico è tramite il tetto e nessuno può usare la cartolina. Lo SXOC ha spostato da una macchina doppia 1.0 P3 ai singolo 2.4 P4, quando stava spostando 70-odd GB un il mese. Lo ha guidato in terra all'interno di 12 ore ed ha dovuto essere spostato ancora. Le singole macchine del CPU sono * CRAP * per BBS's occupato come questo

.

I understand it equally well in Babel-fish Italian, which is to say, not at all. And edited because it was going to say 'all greek to me' but the site can't use cyrillic characters.

 

Bloody IT-speak.

[Supragal]

Hmm. Earlier this thread bugged me a bit because I always feel that when somerthing like this kicks off everyone gets yelled at and I'm too care-bearish for all that, but now it's amusing me. Good bit of hijacking soon sorts that out lol

 

John did make 2 of the points I intended too but forgot, they were:

 

"if people have a query over the club funds why not approach a moderator directly and ask them to discuss it with the other mods?" - exactly. same goes for anything you have a query about, as soon as something like this is posted it turns into a slanging match and it's not fair on anyone.

 

"Lets say it was £100 per month, that means we need 10 new members a month...do we have that many?" - that was the other one!

 

Basically, at the end of the day, John has brought us on board so he can spend more time with his wife and kids, but until everything is fully handed over (takes time) he's still getting drawn into this stuff that I feel we should be handling. I feel bad about that. Threads like this don't help, especially when I explained that we WILL tell you but we all have full time jobs and lives outside of the club.

 

Ahh sod it, I'm just repeating myself, you all know what I mean

[CJ]

Originally posted by Tannhauser

Just to add to the hijack:

 

 

 

and....

 

 

Quel CPU * possibilmente * farebbe fronte a questo BBS. Forse. It's i filetti che lo guideranno in terra, che significa estremità che di you'll presto in su escono scambiare, che di MySQL significa prima che lo conosciate la vostra media del carico è tramite il tetto e nessuno può usare la cartolina. Lo SXOC ha spostato da una macchina doppia 1.0 P3 ai singolo 2.4 P4, quando stava spostando 70-odd GB un il mese. Lo ha guidato in terra all'interno di 12 ore ed ha dovuto essere spostato ancora. Le singole macchine del CPU sono * CRAP * per BBS's occupato come questo

.

I understand it equally well in Babel-fish Italian, which is to say, not at all. And edited because it was going to say 'all greek to me' but the site can't use cyrillic characters.

 

Bloody IT-speak.

 

I understood more of that than I did the conversation between keith and lewis

[Keith C]

Originally posted by stealthhosts

They were using virtual shared hosting (see enclosed image).There site in fact seems to be down even now??

 

Not sure why running shared would be a bad thing - they're running back on a shared server now because the attempt to switch to a single-cpu machine failed horribly.

 

I'll PM you.

[Faye]

Don't you just love it when techies get going ???

[Jake]

Originally posted by Supragal

as soon as something like this is posted it turns into a slanging match and it's not fair on anyone.

well yes but it's only the Mods who are getting the stroppy attitudes. Everyone else has been as nice as the ace of spades.

Like you all keep telling us: this matter comes up all the time, but it always ends up with a mod 'copping a strop' and the thread fizzles out. For a while.

If I was JB I'd just say "Look, it's my BBS, if you don't like it why don't you piss off to some other UK based Supra BBS that has hundreds of posts per week, and jolly good luck trying to find one."

[Steve Cargill]

Originally posted by Keith C

Single CPU machines are *CRAP* for busy BBS's like this.

 

No, they are crap for anything other than typing a letter or playing older games. Any serious multi threaded app will benefit from multiple CPU. The only single CPU machines I own are my laptop and my sons games PC.

 

Or even better, move away from Intel....

[Supragal]

Originally posted by Jake

well yes but it's only the Mods who are getting the stroppy attitudes. Everyone else has been as nice as the ace of spades.

Like you all keep telling us: this matter comes up all the time, but it always ends up with a mod 'copping a strop' and the thread fizzles out. For a while.

 

Thats not true fella, I can see where you're coming from with this particular thread but there have been several recently that we've been asked to edit (by the people involved) that have all been along the same lines. THAT is why there has been 'seemingly' unnecessary annoyance in this thread.

 

I can't say it again. When we get the info together it'll be available.

 

Originally posted by Jake

If I was JB I'd just say "Look, it's my BBS, if you don't like it why don't you piss off to some other UK based Supra BBS that has hundreds of posts per week, and jolly good luck trying to find one." [/b]

 

But that wouldn't be very club like and care-bearish now would it? lol

[Jake]

Originally posted by Supragal

Thats not true fella, I can see where you're coming from with this particular thread but there have been several recently that we've been asked to edit (by the people involved) that have all been along the same lines. THAT is why there has been 'seemingly' unnecessary annoyance in this thread.

iDunno, guess I didn't see those threads

[Branners]

I must remember not to reply to posts when I get home after a 12 hour day combined with a crap week, added to the fact that I hadnt had dinner (those of you who know me know this is never good) and I hadnt seen my family.

 

Assuming somebody can find the time I have no issue with people seeing the overall subscriptions along with the expenditure every 12 months or 6 months. The newsletter is a good idea, it would give us the opprtunity to cover a number of elements. It would be electronically done so wouldnt involve printing costs. Anybody out there who does publishing on the side or had experience of doing newsletters?

 

If you have an idea for an event where the club can contribute then please let the moderators know, we cant fund everything and we need to make sure the funds are used fairly. For example if we were having a club BBQ I would look at having one down south and one up north. Then the vast majority of the club can benefit. Otherwise we could end up with all the funds going to events in the south.

 

At this point JAE isnt going to be any different from last year, if theres any suggestions then please put them forward.

 

This is a club for its members, its not here so the mods and myself can make money, we get no financial benefit from it at all. So if you have ideas put them forward.

 

I do like the idea of the 'club suggestion forum' or thread so we will implement that probably in the members only section.

 

so hopefully that clears some of it up.

[michael]

Thankyou

[Suprash]

Originally posted by Peter Sharp

Are we not just going to go round in circles like the last post on this

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19454&highlight=membership

 

(I'm not having a dig at anyone here but, this quesiton never gets settled)

 

 

I know Pete, and I have been thinking about it ever since you last brought it up, because its like talking to Tony Blair, you never get a straight answer.

 

Originally posted by mawby

Out of interest Ashley and mcanny, what answer do you actually want? Do you want someone to say that yes there's hundreds of thousands in the bank sitting there doing nothing. Then what?

 

We arrange a load of track days for our club that was said in the beggining. Not a stand at some Jap event, that ends up being evaded by half of the other cars.

 

Originally posted by mawby

How about if someone let slip that actually all the profits get split amoungst the mods and we've got a big group holiday planned this summer? Then what? Or maybe after costs there's a small sum left that we're hoping to build up to fund such things as the club merchandising (which Rosie has started with the clothing), club discounts (which we're all trying to source, especially for insurance), web site improvements (which Dave has started with the FAQ section), more club presence at events (JAE club stand being paid for by the club for example. I wont mention Santa Pod tomorrow as I've actually folked out the cost of phone calls and postage myself - maybe I should claim for that and decrease the sum even more).

 

We've got some big plans for this club but this is not our jobs. We need time to get things in place. But I'm interetsed to hear, what exactly do you want for your £10s?

 

Why pay top dollar for hosting when you can get it cheaper, I now at least 2 people that have offered it to you cheaper.

 

Originally posted by mawby

Is that what people really think? My patients is really drawing thin on this matter now.

 

Agreed with MCanny, you off all people should be the last to loose your pateince, Im sure I wont be the last person to ask this question.

 

Originally posted by mawby

Look, I just get pissed off because I put hundreds of hours into this place for free for my enjoyment and the enjoyment of the members alike. Every time someone asks about club funds there's always the "I'm not bothered if someone is making money" line that really means you are bothered and in fact you believe that's what's happening. If that's not the case then why do people keep mentioning it? Why don't poeple just accept that no one is making money out of this.

 

If thats the case, we should be able to book a few club days then.........Im not in no way implying someone is making out of this, this isnt my point.

 

SG, I fully understand the hassle it must be in running this place, I ran a Sunday side football team with my mate and after 2 seasons we gave up, why, becuase we were fed up of getting up twice as early on a Sunday just to have all the kit, supplies, juices, balls, all laid out for them, sandwiches in the pub after games, end of seasons awards, all the background work with B/stoke FA, and not even getting a thanks half the time, so I do understand. I wasnt aware the club was paying for the underlying costs of the t-shirts, so this is the first thing we have had since the cards, not being funny but I would rather have a track day than a t-shirt......just my personal view.

 

Again Im reading through this therad and people are still defending the fact that they are not making money out of this club, again I couldnt care if that is the case, thats not my point. My point is just the club together as a whole, a bit of tarmac, and bloody good days fun. I remember as a newbie, thats all I wanted was to find the limits of my car in a safe enviroment. After all we a are a car club, not a fashion accessory club, but thats just my personal priorities.

 

Originally posted by mawby

I'm very puzzled though as to why everyone wants to know exactly what monies being spent where, but everyone says they don't care about it.

 

I dont, I just want to some club track days, maybe a club BBQ.......

 

Originally posted by Branners

The big club events dont happen cos no bugger will organise them, if I cant find time to do stickers Im not going to find time to do a big event.

 

Eventually, thanks JB an answer, so the reason we havent had a club RR day, BBQ or whatever is because of the fact that no one can be bothered to organise something, not becuase we havent any money.

 

Just reading to the end of this, costs are obviously a high factor for the running, but I feel this can be a classic case of who you know not what you know, as I have said I know of at least 2 people that Im sure you could cut runnning costs.

 

Also yes events are organised by individuals. Im talking about a track day where we can turn up and have enrty free on the club, or a BBQ, where we havent got to pay for the beer, its by the club, everyone pissed big photo shoot at teh end of the day. Am I really on my own in this absent way of thinking.

 

Originally posted by Jake

well yes but it's only the Mods who are getting the stroppy attitudes. Everyone else has been as nice as the ace of spades.

Like you all keep telling us: this matter comes up all the time, but it always ends up with a mod 'copping a strop' and the thread fizzles out. For a while.

If I was JB I'd just say "Look, it's my BBS, if you don't like it why don't you piss off to some other UK based Supra BBS that has hundreds of posts per week, and jolly good luck trying to find one."

 

I agree Jake, except the last part, but wouldnt you rather 2 events a year where we are ALL together. After all when was the last time I saw you, it was Dam, would be good to see ya again as we got on really well.

 

Im not having a go, pointing the finger, in fact Im not the arguing type, never have been, dont care, all I do care about is I have met some really good friends through here, and Im sure I can meet more, so lets prioritise a bit more and get club days together, where we can all sit around and laugh about things like this.

[Suprash]

Oh, and thought I had better give a to the mods and JB, as I said this was no personal bashing, I am just disapopinted that we havent done anything as a club yet.

 

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We wanna be together......