Any heating engineers?

[Havard]

Where is the pump and can you hear it running??

 

There should be a 3 position switch on the side of it, alter the speed and see if there is a change in sound. These things are quiet but you should be able to tell if it's running or not.

 

Sounds like you have a "tank fed" system. There should be a header tank in the loft. Check if this is full of water as it is this water that forces the air out when you bleed the radiators.!!

 

You may have two tanks up there one will be for "hot water" and the other to the heating. Easy to tell which is which, when you run a hot tap the ball float in one will open.

 

We'll get there in the end mate!!

 

H.

[tbourner]

Cheers Fargo, but do you mean the normal 'temperature' valve on the radiators? The one you change whenever you want one to come on or not? Or the one the other end that I've only ever used to close when taking a radiator off?

 

H, the pump's next to the tank, it's on position I (I - III) at the moment, what does this do then if I put it to II or III? There's also a flat head type turn slot (could fit a coin in it for example) on the front that obviously turns something as well - with an arrow pointing anti-clockwise around it?

[Havard]

H, the pump's next to the tank, it's on position I (I - III) at the moment, what does this do then if I put it to II or III? There's also a flat head type turn slot (could fit a coin in it for example) on the front that obviously turns something as well - with an arrow pointing anti-clockwise around it?

 

The switch with the I or II etc is the speed selector switch. Uusally speed II depending upon the size of the system. I take it the pump is running?. The more radiators you have generally the higher the speed the pump should be on. It will do no harm to knock it up a speed and see if the heat improves. Generally if the pump is on too low a speed, you will have two or three radiators that are hot and the others are gradually getting colder the further away they are from the boiler.

 

The bit on the top of the pump with the slot in is the bleed screw. You can undo this and see if there is any air trapped in the top of the pump. be careful as this is like bleeding the radiators and water will spurt out if there is no air trapped. If it has been installed properly there should be no air trapped as it should be mounted on its side and any air would congregate in the radiators.

 

What is the main problem with your system, are the radiators cold or just luke warm?

 

H.

[tbourner]

They just seem to take ages to get hot, they all do eventually get hot but by that time the CH is shutting down!!

[Havard]

They just seem to take ages to get hot, they all do eventually get hot but by that time the CH is shutting down!!

 

Knock that pump up a speed and see if it improves. The system should only shut down when the house is warm. Might be a thermostat problem!! If the thermostat is in the warmest part of the house then the rest of the house will suffer.

 

If it is taking a long time to heat up it may be the boiler is too small for the number of radiators you have.

 

If there are no air locks then I would have a good look at the boiler, can you get the model number and give me a clue as to the number of rads you have.

 

Does your hot water seem fine?

 

H.

[RIJ8631]

whats a TOFFO apart from them chewy sweets that come in a red packet.

 

It is what British Gas Engineers are affectionately known as within the plumbing and heating trade.

 

due to the fact that they normally Turn OFf and then F*ck Off.

 

But it is a term of affection though.

 

cheers

Ian

[RIJ8631]

 

A 12 degree difference from one side to the other????

 

There's also an emersion tank in the same cupboard as the timer control, the setting on it seems to adjust the temperature of the hot water from the taps,

 

As Fargo said, I wouldnt concern myself about the 12 degree difference - this is just technical talk , most heating engineers are only concerned that the rads heat up.

 

This is your hot water cylinder, it will have an immersion heater which is turned on/off by an electrical switch, The other control on this is the hot water cylinder stat, which controls the temp of the hot water. very important that this is kept over 65 degrees to prevent legionella building up in your cylinder.

 

Did altering the pump speed as suggested by Harvard make any difference ?

 

Do you thermostatic radiator valves (trv's) on the side of the radiators ?

 

cheers

ian

[tbourner]

The system should only shut down when the house is warm. Might be a thermostat problem!! If the thermostat is in the warmest part of the house then the rest of the house will suffer.

 

...can you get the model number and give me a clue as to the number of rads you have.

 

Does your hot water seem fine?

 

H.

 

The thermostat is on the landing outside the bathroom - usually the coldest part of the house!!!

 

It says it's a 'Baxi 3 solo PFL50', and radiators are 1 in each of the kitchen, hall, lounge, bedroom 1 and bedroom 2. None on the landing or bathroom.

 

Hot water is always hot when we need it, comes through after about 30 seconds of running the tap - and it's bloody hot!!! We have an electric shower though so don't use much hot water there (missus has baths maybe twice a week).

 

 

 

very important that this is kept over 65 degrees to prevent legionella building up in your cylinder.

This was set to 60, I think we put it down in summer because we couldn't physically touch the water coming out the hot tap!!!

I've just put it up to just over 65 - that might make a difference in itself I suppose!

 

Did altering the pump speed as suggested by Harvard make any difference ?

 

Haven't changed the pump speed yet, will do now. TBH the house is pretty warm now cos it's been on the weekend setting (on all day), and it's not so cold outside today, so I won't know if it helps until next week really.

The fact that it being a horribly cold day makes it worse suggests my bad insulation isn't helping!!

 

 

Do you thermostatic radiator valves (trv's) on the side of the radiators ?

A what now?

 

They have a knob on the left, that is just a tap to let the water into the rad, a knob on the right that I thought was to stop the water going evreywhere when removing a rad, and the bleed valve on the top right. No clever looking high tech gadgets though.

[Fargo]

Cheers Fargo, but do you mean the normal 'temperature' valve on the radiators? The one you change whenever you want one to come on or not? Or the one the other end that I've only ever used to close when taking a radiator off?

 

if you have an adjustable temp type valve on one side then i mean the opposite site.

 

you may have sticky TRV's (rad temprature valves) the head usually comes off and you will see the pin on the valve, push this in and out to free it up.

[RIJ8631]

 

They have a knob on the left, that is just a tap to let the water into the rad, a knob on the right that I thought was to stop the water going evreywhere when removing a rad, and the bleed valve on the top right. No clever looking high tech gadgets though.

 

doesn't sound as if you have trv's fiited, just the lockshield valves.

 

I would suggest as Harvard says - adjust the pump speed and see what difference this makes, if any, hopefully that's all that will be needed.

merry xmas

cheers

ian

[tbourner]

Now it's got colder again this week, snow yesterday, about 0 outside this morning.

 

Heating on full - all radiators are HOT when I woke up - temperature on the landing is 16 degrees!!!!

Don't think it's inefficient heating now so much as bad insulation in the house (or simply that there aren't enough radiators or too small! - how much to fit a bigger system?).

[Havard]

Yeah Trev,

 

If the radiators are hot and the room isn't warm then it's one of those two!!

 

Have you got double glazing and an insulated loft??

 

I would bet on the radiators not being big enough. A lot of installers skimp on rads and buy the cheaper smaller ones.

 

In your hall way physically how big is the rad?? And is there one on the landing?? I need the dimensions and whether it is twin panel, single panel, with or without convector?? (the bit of metal that sits on the back?

 

I'll then tell you if it's big enough.

 

H.u

[tbourner]

I can measure later, but I think it's lack of rads rather than size!!

 

Our house isn't small, average I'd say. Lounge is approximately 14' x 8', 2 bedrooms both about 10' square (one is slightly longer), bathroom is tiny though and a galley kitchen.

Rad in lounge is normal size (I can measure later if needed), but lounge stays warm when the doors closed, bedroom one has an older looking rad with a mesh across the top and 2 main 'plates', gets pretty hot but we never close any of the doors in the house except the lounge so it's hard to say. Second bedroom has a reasonably normal size rad too.

Kitchen rad is about the same IIRC.

 

There is no radiator on the landing or in the bathroom, there is one in the hall downstairs though.

 

 

I can get some better ideas of size later.

[boromfccup]

mine goes cold and hot water, it pisses me off its a valliant, but its 18 years old,i think it the divertor valve, as i get hot rads ok, but hot water sheehite.

[tbourner]

I'm so confused by systems as well - I can't see the pipes or where they go so I can't work out anything myself!

[Havard]

mine goes cold and hot water, it pisses me off its a valliant, but its 18 years old,i think it the divertor valve, as i get hot rads ok, but hot water sheehite.

 

Does sound like the three way valve. I would rather have an 18 year old Vailant than some of the new boilers that are coming out!! They reckon a 5 year lifespan for a combi now!!

 

H.

[tbourner]

They reckon a 5 year lifespan for a combi now!!

 

H.

 

http://missions.blogsome.com/images/doh.jpg

[Alex]

My brand new (installed last week) heating system failed this morning! Argh! Lack of pressure in our Vaillant Ecotec 837...but I did the system fill and it started to work again...I'm a bit concerned by the if you do this whilst it's cold you'll blow the pressure valve comment on page 1...but hopefully it'll be ok.

 

We'd heard the rads making some noises last night, guessing some air was moving about, so I'll be buying a rad key today and rebleeding my brand new rads again tonight...

 

Joy.

 

Still I haven't paid for it yet...

[tbourner]

How much was it, Alex? Did you fit it or get it done? Might need to see someone about adding a radiator or two and maybe an uprated system.

[RIJ8631]

Does sound like the three way valve. I would rather have an 18 year old Vailant than some of the new boilers that are coming out!! They reckon a 5 year lifespan for a combi now!!

 

H.

 

Got to agree with Harvard. What with the acidic reaction in condensing boilers and most of the components made of plastic - the majority of new boilers are sh*te.

We look after thousands of 20 year+ combi boilers, but the current boilers are never going to be around for half of that time.

Cheers

Ian

[RIJ8631]

My brand new (installed last week) heating system failed this morning! Argh! Lack of pressure in our Vaillant Ecotec 837...but I did the system fill and it started to work again...I'm a bit concerned by the if you do this whilst it's cold you'll blow the pressure valve comment on page 1...but hopefully it'll be ok.

 

We'd heard the rads making some noises last night, guessing some air was moving about, so I'll be buying a rad key today and rebleeding my brand new rads again tonight...

 

Joy.

 

Still I haven't paid for it yet...

 

Keep an eye on the pressure level for the next few weeks. If the pressure continues to drop - then you may have a leak in your ch system. If so get your installer back to check.

If your going to air your radiators then remember to repressurise your ch system back to approx 1.5 bars.

Get the man paid - no wonder us heating engineers never have any money !!!!!! (lol)

cheers

Ian

[Alex]

Ahhh fuck it....

It was a rad spilling it's guts out of a crush nut connection

Water had pissed out of it....twice. The carpet's soaked...didn't notice it as the rad is hidden.

 

Got in last night and found the pressure had gone again so went round to all the rads to shut them off....stepped in a load of wet and thought "Ummm this isn't right" (understatement of the year). Worked out where the leak was coming from and tightened the crush nut up...bit pee'd off mainly with myself for not spotting it yesterday morning.

 

Refilled the system and bled the rads...pressure spiked up to 2.8bar pretty quickly, so I learnt how to bleed it pretty quickly!! It's now been at 1.8bar for 12hrs....and no new leaks, might lower it to 1.5bar later, but I thought if it can hold a higher pressure for a bit with no new leaks I was on to a winner. (book says 1-2bar so I'm inside the operating limits....and it will handle upto 2.5bar.)

 

The guy that installed it hasn't finished and has pissed off to Austria for a week which has made things a bit more tricky, so that's why he's not been paid and that's also why I had to learn how to fix it.

 

It cost me £3600. That's for Vaillant Ecotec 837, 8 rads (2 in new locations) removal of old system inc hot tank, running a new kitchen sink drain and running new spurs for a shower from the combi...as and when we're ready to do the bathroom. Oh and I nearly forgot he's replaced all the gas pipes going into the bungalow from the meter, because we want to dig up the old one under the kitchen floor.

 

He's got to comeback, drain down the system as we've decided to clean it for 2 weeks before inhibiting a fresh supply, and he's got to do the kitchen sink drain, but the rest was done in 4 days with a mate to help.

 

The rad that had the failure was down to poor installation, the same rad pissed water out of the top nut and bleed nut the first time we added water to it. I probably wouldn't care usually but it's now soak the foot of some very expensive pine furniture...

 

I'll be having a chat with him when he's back from Austria...fingers crossed it's all ok when I ge back tonight!!!

 

I chose the Vaillant 837 because the 835Max had just gone end of life....I chose the biggest bastards because I wanted to ensure that we could run a shower off it, and not need a tank with a pump. This one can run upto 15lpm but our mains flow isn't quite that high so it could have been better but I still think it's going to give us a good enough shower. I chose Vaillant for the 5year guarenteed Stainless Steel heat exchanger...and the build quality full stop.

 

The rads are Ideal Stelrad Compacts. These are really good looking and pump out a hell of a lot of BTU's for their size.

 

HTH

 

Fingers crossed it all works perfectly from now on!!!

[Havard]

Although the standards in combi's are falling you will not get better than Vailant imo!!

 

I bought a Gloworm last Christmas as our 4 year old Ideal boiler packed in with a failed heat exchanger. The boiler actuially failed two years before but we could never get to the bottom of the problem. Eventually a small leak inside the boiler was its undoing. Unfortunately, the water we were losing was flashing off as steam out of the boiler flue!! I had spent two years looking for leaks on my system, under the floors etc

 

Heating systems are a PITA. Better than being cold though!!

 

H.

[tbourner]

Here's a quick paint drawing of my house from memory - haven't measured though!!

 

The red bits are the rads and the blue bits are sources of cold!!

 

There's no door between the hall and kitchen, and the kitchen has a larder of which the door is always cold (insulated round the edges though), and the back door is pretty cold as it's an old wooden type - I've done my best but we still get draughts underneath it (and through the cat flap!!).

Front door now has a curtain over it which helps.

Upstairs the thermostat is on the wall on the right as you come out the bathroom.

 

 

Drawing it like that makes it seem like we have hardly any radiators!!

[Alex]

Can you add the thermostat and boiler positions in?