Alex Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I know that Ian advocates the use of the airflow map to make corrections for larger injectors, but just for a test it might be worth going back to the global injector settings and see if it will run better on that, i know that people have had problems running bigger injectors with the blue, mainly on other engines, i suspect that it maybe down to there being no lag set up on the blue, and AFAIK this is taken into account of in the global settings, the overall lag time will have a impact on the fuelling but will be very noticeable on idle, makes sense to me, anyone else? Did you post this having read that he hadn't connected up the MAP sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Nearly there! Its runs much better now (obviously) and afr's are more healthy and injector duration is now 2.6 However it doesn't sound like its running on all cylinders. I can only guess this is due to the strange wiring issue I had with my EMB. On step 4 of this page: http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/install/2jz-gte_install/index.html in the install guide it shows the back of the plugs. On my plugs several of these wires were the other way round example: The two yellow wires were the other way round, same for the pink pair and the purple pair. I wired mine up assuming the wiring colours were wrong on the harness (i.e. so the yellow/white was actually the yellow/black). is this likely to be the cause, is it going to cause any damage if I swap them over? I'm not good on the wiring up...I can speak to Ian tomorrow about it but it does sound like a wiring issue and differences between US and JDM wiring harnesses. I'm sure if you do a search you'll find the pinout diagrams for the JDM version, any that you find make sure they tally with what you've got from Mohd's site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Try and forget the colour coding that Mohd has used on the emanage install becuase it will only apply to your install if your supplimentry Injection and Ignition harnesses have been constructed in exactly the same way. Try to work on the physical layout of the harness and were each wire goes.. Ive done a quick photoshop showing the injectors harness and the pin assignment on the ECU to which its assisgned.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 PS as you can see i left the colour code for the wire in from Mohds install for the Ground, but as an example this could be any colour that has been installed in that location on the harness...as long as it goes to a ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 I'm not good on the wiring up...I can speak to Ian tomorrow about it but it does sound like a wiring issue and differences between US and JDM wiring harnesses. I'm sure if you do a search you'll find the pinout diagrams for the JDM version, any that you find make sure they tally with what you've got from Mohd's site. Thanks once again Alex (and Ian). Your help is much appreciated Try and forget the colour coding that Mohd has used on the emanage install becuase it will only apply to your install if your supplimentry Injection and Ignition harnesses have been constructed in exactly the same way. Try to work on the physical layout of the harness and were each wire goes.. Ive done a quick photoshop showing the injectors harness and the pin assignment on the ECU to which its assisgned.. Thats exactly what I did, the wires colours were different on my harness so I ignored them and followed the pin locations. The Injector harness is wired exactly as you show in the diagram (This is the same as on the mohd site). The pic below shows the differences between my ignition harness and the one on the MOHD site (mine on left, mohd on right). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Yeah sorry, just some people get a little confused over the wiring colours and if they dont match up. The only difference in your install we be as Alex pointed out, you use pin 62 for the MAP instead of Pin 66 as per Mohds (MAF). If you think it may be a problem with the Ignition Harness, It shouldnt take long to remove it if you have used the Butt Connections, then see how it runs with without the ignition feature - just to help the process of eliminating any problems? Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 Yeah sorry, just some people get a little confused over the wiring colours and if they dont match up. The only difference in your install we be as Alex pointed out, you use pin 62 for the MAP instead of Pin 66 as per Mohds (MAF). If you think it may be a problem with the Ignition Harness, It shouldnt take long to remove it if you have used the Butt Connections, then see how it runs with without the ignition feature - just to help the process of eliminating any problems? Marty Thanks Marty. I used butt connectors on the ignition harness so its simple enough to swap and change these. Didn't realise you could set them back to stock though. Presumably they just allow adjustement of the ignition timing (something which isn't anywhere near idle)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Thanks Marty. I used butt connectors on the ignition harness so its simple enough to swap and change these. Didn't realise you could set them back to stock though. Presumably they just allow adjustement of the ignition timing (something which isn't anywhere near idle)? Yeah isnt a problem without the ignition harness connected. Just unplug it from the ECU loom and Emanage, and reconnect the wires at the ECU. Its how all UK spec 2jzgte's run with the EMB - injector control but no ignition (until the IGT problems sorted) As you said, it felt like it wasnt running on all cylinders so this is an easy way to eliminate a problem with the ignition wiring side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 Thanks mate, thats one thing to try tomorrow at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 I've removed the ignition harness completely, but its still the same: Running very rough sounds like its not running all cylinders. On cold start today it was idling at 2k rpm (did not drop after 2 minutes) and injector duration is showing 4.4ms Any idea's what to do now? I'm going to go any buy some new plugs now, at least just to rule them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 I've removed the ignition harness completely, but its still the same: Running very rough sounds like its not running all cylinders. On cold start today it was idling at 2k rpm (did not drop after 2 minutes) and injector duration is showing 4.4ms Any idea's what to do now? I'm going to go any buy some new plugs now, at least just to rule them out. reset the ecu for starters and connect up the bits you've proven arn't the issue. Replacing plugs is a good idea too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Might be worth cleaning to O2 and WB02 sensor in Lemon overnight (and then spray with brake cleaner afterwards) to make sure they are both able to see what they are doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 The old plugs were sooted up fairly well, but after changing them its still running as rough as before. O2 sensor is also sooted, so have removed this and stuck it in a glass of lemon juice. If it does the same tomorrow then I'm not sure where to go from here. Guess I'll just stick the old injectors back in and remove the emanage to see if it runs then (yet another days work!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Sorry to hear your probs mate, im having a similar issue with mine see here... http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=92601 although ive been told its because ive not got my wideband wired up yet. Going to do it this week if ive got time and see if it solves the problem. Hope yours is nothing too serious bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted December 20, 2006 Author Share Posted December 20, 2006 Alex / Emanage experts... I'm assuming the o2 sensor clean up tomorrow isn't going to work so would like to get some info in advance: In order to test the emanage is wired and working correctly I'm going to reinstall the stock injectors. In order to see if it idles required to make to Ian's map is to set the Air Flow adjustment to zero? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Your MAP sensor is working OK? and just to save yourself a lot of messing about why don't you just try zeroing all the maps and give the global injector setting a try before you change around all the injectors, i am also presuming that by now you have been thought all the wiring and double checked all the connections? Oh and was the lambda working OK before you changed injectors/emanage over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted December 20, 2006 Author Share Posted December 20, 2006 Your MAP sensor is working OK? and just to save yourself a lot of messing about why don't you just try zeroing all the maps and give the global injector setting a try before you change around all the injectors, i am also presuming that by now you have been thought all the wiring and double checked all the connections? I've checked the wiring on the main harness numerous times and as long as he mohdparts website is correct (apart from the pin66/62 mess up) its exactly as it should be. I've not tried the global setting, but will give that a shot tomorrow. My gut feeling is its not an over fueling issue. I'm convinced its not running on all cylinders (or misfiring on some) which would lead to either bad wiring, dodgy emanage or dodgy injectors. Edit - the lamda and EVERYTHING else was working fine before I installed the emanage and injectors. I did remove the intake manifold so have maybe broken something there, though there's nothing obvious! Also, thanks for the input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I've checked the wiring on the main harness numerous times and as long as he mohdparts website is correct (apart from the pin66/62 mess up) its exactly as it should be. I've not tried the global setting, but will give that a shot tomorrow. My gut feeling is its not an over fueling issue. I'm convinced its not running on all cylinders (or misfiring on some) which would lead to either bad wiring, dodgy emanage or dodgy injectors. Edit - the lamda and EVERYTHING else was working fine before I installed the emanage and injectors. I did remove the intake manifold so have maybe broken something there, though there's nothing obvious! Also, thanks for the input I would also try just the Global correction feature and Zero everything else out, which should at least get you in the ball park for idling. If it still mis' behaves badly then install the original injectors, and set the map to use the originals. If its still causing problems, then disconnect the Injector Harness from the Emanage. It will still operate ok with it unpluged as it acts like an SAFC with simple map signal control. If the car Still runs like shit then i would totally remove the emange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 The global correction is horrendous! Ian's written up why, somewhere...but it basically is cack at doing proper mapping with. In anycase the issue isn't the map - that's been tried and tested before. The issue is you're spitting out a signal to keep the injectors open for 4.4ms....and it shouldn't, ok. So if you're going to fit the old injectors for a test that's fine. Can you also though leave the e-manange in and run a Zero'd map in it...you can the datalog what's going on with stock injectors. If it still runs like a bag of shite with the stockers in and the eManage connected. Disconnect the eManage and retest. If it's still wrong we know it's not the injectors or the eManage. What are your rotary dial numbers again? For definate. 4.4ms here is the issue....it should be 2, so either the EMB is doing nothing, or it's spitting out a faulty signal either through the information it's getting in being wrong, the unit being faulty or the configuration/installation of the EMB being to blame. It's not the map, if you can put in -50 in the cold start zone and can't get is below 4.4ms duration after 30-60secs it's not the map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 The global correction is horrendous! Ian's written up why, somewhere...but it basically is cack at doing proper mapping with. In anycase the issue isn't the map - that's been tried and tested before. The issue is you're spitting out a signal to keep the injectors open for 4.4ms....and it shouldn't, ok. So if you're going to fit the old injectors for a test that's fine. Can you also though leave the e-manange in and run a Zero'd map in it...you can the datalog what's going on with stock injectors. If it still runs like a bag of shite with the stockers in and the eManage connected. Disconnect the eManage and retest. If it's still wrong we know it's not the injectors or the eManage. What are your rotary dial numbers again? For definate. 4.4ms here is the issue....it should be 2, so either the EMB is doing nothing, or it's spitting out a faulty signal either through the information it's getting in being wrong, the unit being faulty or the configuration/installation of the EMB being to blame. It's not the map, if you can put in -50 in the cold start zone and can't get is below 4.4ms duration after 30-60secs it's not the map. It is cack Alex, and should never be used for mapping but at this point its not being used to any proper mapping just help out with the fault elimination. I thought the map was one of Ians Base maps, for which sized injectors i dont know, so can only go on what Homer is describing. As said, the best way is a step by step process to eventially single the fault or items at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 If it's maxed out though in the cell...and can't remove anymore fuel then it can't, the issue isn't the map. What Darryl could try is tweaking the cell and seeing if the ms timing changed at all...ie if the eManage is actually having an effect at all...if he say made the cell in question a 0 it should almost double up the millisecond count.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave S Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I've been running similar 800cc with the Blue for nearly 2 years....the only issues I had when installing were that I was told they were Hi Z but ended up being Lo Z and needed a resistor pack....once I'd installed the pack correctly it ran/ idled fine with a similar map to Ian's....maybe worth checking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted December 21, 2006 Author Share Posted December 21, 2006 Okay, here goes. Reinstalled the jap injectors, removed emenage and it now idles properly, but misfired anytime the throttle is blipped I've checked all the connects and hoses, everything is in securely. Fuel pressure is good, plugs are brand new, coil pack connectors are pefect. Completely stuck on where to go from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Can you do the same test with the EMB connected? Zero the map so it makes no corrections (you can select all if you hold down shift ). Then you can datalog the issue...see what the thing is doing and remember you need all the datalogging options turned on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Try checking the output voltage of the MAP sensor, other than that it sounds like it could be an injector driver problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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