Steve W2 Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Originally posted by Paul Laing 150mph, i don't do those kinds of speeds lol Well i havn't with the new pads on yet, but i still don't think it's warped disks like, as they were perfectly fine with the old stock pads on Hope you get it sorted either way. Like others have said, be careful when bleeding brakes if you haven't done it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Laing Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 Thanks for all the help, i just hope the brakes need bled and i don't need new disks....I'll let you all know what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soop Dogg Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 While you're bleeding the brakes, do these things also. This should find the problem. Take the discs off and clean behind them. That's both surfaces (The hub face AND the back of the disc) where the inside of the disc meets the hub. This will ensure that the disc can run true. When you've done bleeding the brakes and get to the point where you've refitted the wheel and are ready to drop the car off the jack, give the wheel a spin. While it is spinning, get someone to apply the brake pedal to stop the wheel. Then try to spin the wheel again. It should spin freely. You will hear the pads just touching the disc, but this is not a problem as long as the wheel spins with virtually no resistance from the brakes. Hope you sort it mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Laing Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 Cheers mate, will give it a go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Guys if its a warped disc, you will only feel the juddering under breaking, getting worse the higher speed you do. If its crap caught behind the disc then this would wobble all the time. If it was air in the system, then you would get spongy'ness, and not as responsive, slack or harder pedal than usual, I cant remember which way round. If your caliper has seized than that could have caused your disc to warp as said.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Get your wheel studs replaced by somebody competent first....this isn't gonna help diagnose wheel vibration probs If your dad took the caliper off and didn't bleed the system, get someone else to work on the car.......as he doesn't qualify as competent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Laing Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 If you havn't got anything decent to say Matt don't bother, i bet my dad knows alot more than you about cars! He hasn't been around to bleed the brakes, and i havn't used the car much!!!! Ashley, the brakes feel very spongey, it's not warped disks, just in need of being bled, where doing this on Saturday. Thanks for all the positive comments guys, apart from one, you allways get one eh? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Paul, please don't have a go at Matt. What he said is actually perefctly correct : if the calipers have been disconnected from the brake lines then the system MUST be bled because it's sure to have gotten air into the system. That would cause a spongy pedal and reduced braking efficiency. Anyone changing brakes on any car, let alone a Supra, should know that much at the bare minimum. I'm not having a pop at you or your dad, honestly, but it's the truth. Please mate, for your own safety, get it checked properly. OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Laing Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 My dad knows it needs bled, he's bleeding them on saturday but he's been away all week so hasn't had a chance to do them, we finished them late last week, so there was no time. I've only used the car a few times when i've had to. I'm not paying a garage to do something my dad can do perfectly, i like to do most of the work myself.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 OK, he's your dad and you won't have a word said against him, I can respect that, but you really shouldn't be driving that car until every single bit of air has been got out of the braking system. Your dad should know this and should have told you the same. By the way, it takes a couple of minutes to bleed the front brakes if there's two of you, I can't believe you just didn't have time and have been driving the car since then knowing that it needed doing. Anyway, good luck with it, hopefully you'll get away without having to replace the discs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soop Dogg Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 One more thing, Paul. Sorry to keep going on about it, but I'm not confident you understood. A number of people have said this, but there has been rather alot of info being pointed out here regarding a number of problems and a number of fixes. Bleeding the brakes will sort out the spongy pedal. This will NOT make the slightest bit of difference to the wobble you have said the car has. However, this is the job you should do first as it is the most important. Don't drive it until this is done! If you need to apply the brakes at speed and have air in the system, you could find the pedal will sink to the floor before you have scrubbed off enough speed, and then you're really screwed! If you need to brake sharp for more than about 5 seconds at high brake pressure, THIS WILL HAPPEN! Forget the cost if you have to drive your car, get it sorted. The wobble you describe is caused by something either being out ot true (disc either warped or with something such as dirt/flakes of rust caught behind it do it doesn't sit flush on the face of the hub) or something out of balance. As you say you had a wobble at 80mph before due to the wheels not being balanced, and this still exists as well as a new wobble at over 100, I would say get the wheels balanced, they needed doing anyway. Then get that wheel stud replaced as having one missing will put the wheel out of balance anyway. By the way, you shouldn't be doing those sorts of speeds with only 4 wheel studs!!! Then start investigating the discs if the wobble is still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Laing Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 Hi, when driving the car lastnight it’s actually more of a steering wheel wobble than a judder. The wheels which I know aren’t balaced are wobbling the steering wheel and when I press the brakes it gets worse. So theres definetly air in the system. Think I’ll get the wheels balanced this weekend and bleed the brakes and see if that cures the problem. The brakes won’t be working properly with air in them, and only being one side of callipers that we took off that’s why it goes to the left while braking. I’ll get the stud changed hopefully this weekend, I havn’t been driving at those speeds with 4 studs, I’m a Geordie but I’m not that crazy!! Only drove to work and back a couple of times, 30mph tops through traffic lol Cheers, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Paul - despite several people telling you otherwise, it seems you are convinced that air in the braking system is the reason behind the wobble and judder. To use a slightly changed version of your sig -: "Repeat over and over till it sinks in, air in the system does not cause brake judder nor wheel wobble"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Laing Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 THE DISKS ARE NOT WARPED!!!! lol The wobble is down to the wheels not being balanced properly! I've only driven at low speeds with the new pads on so it's not that! The disks are perfect. Ok thanks everyone for your help, as i said i'll let you all know over the weekend what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Good luck with sorting it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 1. Get wheels balanced 2. Clean hub face and rear of wheel to ensure they are flush when mounted 3. If you have aftermarket alloys have you replaced the small plastic ring they centres them on the hub properly? Failure to do this can cause a wobble. 4. Bleed brakes If the problem persists get the disks checked to see if they are warped, if they aren't come back for more advice on other expensive fixes such as suspension components being shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 ok im not saying paul is right, but as his car is pulling to one side, if i read correctly in first post then air may be the cause, if air is trapped in the pipe leading to front caliper, then this will cause less friction on the one brake causing it to pull. on another note, this will not cause the wheel vibration. But if your sure your disks werent warped before then hopefully bleeding will remove both problems good luck:thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Laing Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 Mcanny & Whitesupraboy2 - Cheers for the replys, i will do the list you gave me Michael It's definetly just air in the brakes, and the wobble i think is the fact that the brakes arn't working aswell, which is why they are pulling to the side aswell. This and the fact the front wheels need balaced, when these are done it should be sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Originally posted by Paul Laing If you havn't got anything decent to say Matt don't bother, i bet my dad knows alot more than you about cars! He hasn't been around to bleed the brakes, and i havn't used the car much!!!! Thanks for all the positive comments guys, apart from one, you allways get one eh? Paul What do you mean 'decent' ? Read it again .... I said 'If' your dad etc...... Your posts are inconsistent and hard to understand. You said 'we' changed the pads and that dad was used to working on cars blah blah.... Do I take it you did the pad change by yourself then? You also say that you bedded the brakes in at 100mph +..... then state that you've only been 30mph tops in another post??? WTF? You don't know enough about the mechanics of a motor vehicle to realise how dangerous your car is right now. Air in the brakes particularly right at the caliper can lead to boiling and pedal fade. Especially from the 100+ speeds you have/haven't done:innocent: On another post you admit to shearing a wheel stud by using excessive force.............. check ALL the ones you've tightened in this manner. The others may have stretched and become weakened.. As for 'the bet' ..... save your money , I suspect you will lose. Judging by your last post , you have it all covered anyway ''Always one eh??? ''.............. So it would seem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Paul, you need to get a number of things sorted out before you can decide what's causing you a problem. I suspect, (although it looks like you'll disagree), that you have warped your disks since fitting your new pads. Supra's do have a tendancy to get through disks quite quickly anyway, and from one of your previous posts, "Cheers lads, the more I drive the car the better the brakes get but on a few hard stops from speed they make some mad noises….suppose there just bedding in. " this could easily have been the moment you warped them. But, you must get the stud back on there first, you must get them bled first, then you can decide what to look at next. You can usually feel warped disks through the pedal more than the steering wheel. FWIW, I wouldn't drive a car in the condition you're describing it to be in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Obviously this is down to air in the bypass section and you really need to get a byproximate reading from the coaxial differ BEFORE taking it any further m8! Paul, take no notice of these people who, with a wave of their digits consign this importent problem to the humdrum world of warped discs You and I know better eh? BTW if they come and collect me first m8 - wait up on Salisbury Plain and we'll do a fly-by! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Paul , you mentioned earlier that the UK TRAC setup may be causing the problem. Your right, it needs bleeding as well, search SF for how to do it, it is on there somewhere. As said before, the air will cause the spongy feel, but the wobble is probably warped disks, pretty uncommon, but s**t happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Originally posted by Syed Shah pretty uncommon, but s**t happens. This obviously depends on how hard you drive the car. I get through disks almost as quick as pads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 I thought so yes. With UK brakes, I don't think even the hardest road use should result in warped disks given adequate cooling off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 I've got UK brakes. I warped the J-spec ones the first week I had the car! Since then, I've got through 2 sets of UK disks in less than 30,000 miles. I think the Jap ones are made from butter, and the UK's have improved on this and made them from cheese I've never managed to warp a set of rears yet though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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