Pete Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Surely the owner has the last say? I'd say not if there's a possibility of it holding up a job or causing complications. "...because life is complicated enough" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Jakes Christmas list ------------------ Flat4 Jazz1 MKIVStore Jo brand Kim and Aggie Dawn french Esther Rantzen Er, I would be checking the Motec still has a map in it's brain. Worked fine -> Battery went flat for a while -> charged on car -> car won't behave at all. Sounds more spiked memory than a blown igniter to me. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk-rich Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 remove all plugs, clean and dry them it worked for me on my m600 single started straight up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 Surely the owner has the last say?That's what I thought but Martin said "It's not Darren's to give away". I'd say not if there's a possibility of it holding up a job or causing complications. They have a spare Igniter though. The engine and loom Jez supplied for white car's engine swap has an igniter with it. I kinda got the impression Martin just didn't want to help me. Payback for some comment I've made on here possibly/probably. Er, I would be checking the Motec still has a map in it's brain. Worked fine -> Battery went flat for a while -> charged on car -> car won't behave at all. Sounds more spiked memory than a blown igniter to me. Don't say that! Any idea how I would check? If it has lost the map the fucking thing will be coming out for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk-rich Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 i seriously doubt it has lost its map Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 I kinda got the impression Martin just didn't want to help me. Payback for some comment I've made on here possibly/probably. errr, I take it back. Jody has just PM'd me to say he's posted it to me already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Well, rather than the usual flailing about in a big swapfest of expensive components, followed by multiple disappointments due to it not fixing the problem, I actually like to try and think through what may have gone wrong first. Why would an igniter pack spontaneously die, suddenly and with no warning, while the car didn't even have any power? I just don't find it the most plausible explanation at the moment. Plus Jake says he is getting a spark still. Surely it'd fail fully or not at all? Or only one cylinder pair would go so it'd still fire and run on 4 cylinders. As the car ran out of battery and sat for a bit my thought are more to problems that occur over time or due to electrical spikes rather than sudden failures. Blockages, siezes, memory loss of ECUs, corrosion. Generally engines don't start because they either have no fuel or no spark. Sounds like there is fuel and spark though, so why run rough? Perhaps not enough fuel to burn - can you check the fuel pressure? If no gauge, you can try turning it over while venting the fuel supply line to a container and see how much fuel comes through (just make bloody sure you have no fags or spark plugs out ) The filter could have gummed up maybe. Regarding the spark test, spark demands for idle are very low so if you are seeing a spark I would have thought it'd catch - Did you check it by holding the igniter to put the tip of the plug about 1cm from a cam over or something? Did you check all 6? A 2JZ will run on 2 cylinders, albeit very badly, so it must be something that affects all cylinders - the fuel side of this would be the fuel supply (pressure) or delivery (duty cycle from ECU). The spark side would be actual spark generation (igniter) or timing (from ECU). See why I'm suspecting the ECU at this stage? If the Motec is piggybacked you could try putting it back to just the stock ECU and see if it fires up, providing it can run your injectors. Might need WOT to get it to catch I'm not offering any of these as definitive reasons, it could be the igniter pack and it is indeed a simple swap-out, should the opportunity arise. Just don't hold fire on any other diagnosis awaiting a spare one.... -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 Possible complication: To make sure the engine wasn't still damp I put a small space heater under the (closed) bonnet and took the battery off to charge fully. As soon as I'd taken the battery off the alarm started making a quiet siren noise. Not like the normal alarm going off noise - different and much quieter. In like 10 secs the noise got more feeble then stopped. I left the car with the heater going for 2 hours then reconnected the freshly charged battery but now the car just turns over with absolutely no signs of firing up at all. Bastard thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 errr, I take it back. Jody has just PM'd me to say he's posted it to me already. - They just won't help you next time now! Couldn't it just be the immobiliser/alarm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 The MoTeC and the alarm are looking like candidates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 Perhaps not enough fuel to burn - can you check the fuel pressure? The aeromotive FPR has a pressure gauge and shows normal pressure. Did you check it by holding the igniter to put the tip of the plug about 1cm from a cam over or something? Did you check all 6? I held the threaded part of the plug contacting a cam cover and looked for the spark between the electrode and tip. Edit to add: I only checked for a spark on cylinder #1 If the Motec is piggybacked you could try putting it back to just the stock ECUNo chance of doing that due to the way it's been wired. Most of the wires are no longer connected to the stock ecu sockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 As soon as I'd taken the battery off the alarm started making a quiet siren noise. Not like the normal alarm going off noise - different and much quieter. In like 10 secs the noise got more feeble then stopped. I left the car with the heater going for 2 hours then reconnected the freshly charged battery but now the car just turns over with absolutely no signs of firing up at all. Mmm... the alarm thing sounds like the battery backup on a CAT 1 losing charge and the the turning over with no sign of firing up sounds like the immob kicking in, it's not the alarm going into some kind "argh we are under attack" madness is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Mmm... the alarm thing sounds like the battery backup on a CAT 1 losing charge and the the turning over with no sign of firing up sounds like the immob kicking in, it's not the alarm going into some kind "argh we are under attack" madness is it? I'd phone Matt Harwood and speak to him about the alarm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I'd phone Matt Harwood and speak to him about the alarm.... OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Jake as Ian said I cant see you having fried something unless you did something daft like had a 24v charger on her. I think the Alarm is #1 suspect, although I think you said it started intially but ran roughly. Your space heater hasn't melted any hoses or cables has it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 The space heater hasn't done any harm. I only tried that this afternoon in case it was a damp problem. I've just tried earthing the plugs against the engine hook and the spark is fine. After testing the plugs the exhaust tail pipe stink of petrol too. If I'm getting sparks and fuel it's not the alarm causing the problem, right? Looking more like the MoTeC, ain't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I think the alarm may disable the ECU to prevent it firing - possibly to stop bump starts? I'm sure I've done this on my old Supra. Got it to turn over but forgotten to disable the immobiliser. Perhaps look for alarm wiring instructions? the Clifford ones are in the downloads area I think - if not I have them at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wile e coyote Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Glad to hear that mate not very good if they could not have helped errr, I take it back. Jody has just PM'd me to say he's posted it to me already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Alarms can do really weird things. Contact Matt and see what he thinks. If you've got spark and fuel the only way it can't start is if the timing is seriously off but even then I'd expect some pops and bangs as fuel vapour went up. Damn that no check engine light. You can't do any datalogging or anything can you...? Actually if the alarm keeled over and the battery went flat, hmmm. Any idea why the battery went flat? Do you get any faint glows on dashboard lights with the electrics on? Any odd behaviour of gauges? -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 I tried another Igniter today but it still won't fire. Just turns over with out showing the slightest sign of starting. Alarms can do really weird things. Contact Matt and see what he thinks. If you've got spark and fuel the only way it can't start is if the timing is seriously off but even then I'd expect some pops and bangs as fuel vapour went up. Don't alarms disable the ignition though? If it was the alarm I don't think I'd be seeing any sparks, would I? Damn that no check engine light. You can't do any datalogging or anything can you...? No, I don't think so. Actually if the alarm keeled over and the battery went flat, hmmm. Any idea why the battery went flat? It always goes flat after about a week if I don't use the car at all. I presume it's the alarm that runs the battery down. Do you get any faint glows on dashboard lights with the electrics on? Any odd behaviour of gauges?No, everything seems to illuminate just fine. I need to get this car working. It's my only transport at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I need to get this car working. It's my only transport at the moment. Ever thought of buying another supra as a run around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 It always goes flat after about a week if I don't use the car at all. I presume it's the alarm that runs the battery down. My old one did that too. Should last a damn sight longer than a week really unless a short somewhere. Try a multimeter between the battery and chassis and see what voltage you measure. Should be about 0.02v or something. Perhaps one of those battery conditioner jobbies would be a good buy? As used on classic cars / kits etc. Keeps it topped up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Perhaps one of those battery conditioner jobbies would be a good buy? As used on classic cars / kits etc. Keeps it topped up.Yeah maybe, if I ever get the car going again. Least of my problems at the mo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Jake my runabout had this problem a couple of weeks ago. The key fob battery that stores the engine immobiliser code (or something like that) had run down, so it'd unlock the car but not disable the immobiliser. When I tried to start it, it'd catch initially and run for about a second before cutting out on me....if I tried it again it'd turn over but not start. Leaving it a couple of minutes would see it start breifly again then die, etc etc. How sheepish did I look when the RAC man took my spare key and voila! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Sorry to see you're having problems Jake. Firstly, I'd suggest that you have a knackered battery. A decent battery should be able to last at least 2-3 weeks before going flat. - Yes, the alarm 'could' be draining it, but in 99.999% of "the alarms flattening my battery" cases I've seen, it's not the alarm. If an alarm is drawing current, it's because its got a fault. Usually sticky/duff relays, and that will usually show itself fairly obviously. As for the non starting issue. Again, it 'could' be the alarm, but unless the installer knew the Supra electrics very well, he would of only immobilised the ignition, fuel and/or starter motor. I haven't read the whole thread, but have you tried disconnecting the battery, leaving it off for a few minutes and re-connecting? - It's possible something could have 'spiked' when you charged the battery. I assume the MAF has been ditched and the MoTeC is running from MAP sensor now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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