sdavies Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 What shocked me when I first found out is : I get paid, there is tax on what I earn... ok fair eonugh My employer pays me - they get taxed seperately, on a much higher rate - what they pay me... err wtf!? No wonder companies that work out of th UK are struggling to be competitive with the rest of the world!!! So the Government take their piece of tax out of me AND my employer?!?!? MAD! You live you pay tax, you die you pay huge tax! Inheritance tax... the most wrong tax I have ever heard of in my life. At this point when I hear of peoples woes with death duty that I think Guy Fawkes had it right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2jzhead Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I have been told that this petition wont make any difforence. if this petition doesent get through everyone from the supra owners club should go down the wherever it is that they pass all this shit and rebel!! burnouts, dounuts, remember they cant arrest all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I agree that we are taxed in far too many ways. When we earn it, when we save it, when we spend it...... But - be grateful you don't live in Denmark. Tax on cars there is horrendous. One guy on the Porsche forum lives in Sweden but works in Denmark. He paid 32K to buy his car in Sweden - if he wanted to move to Denmark, he would have to pay about 53K to register the car there. Ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markie Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Thats because they need all their space for bacon. No room for bigger roads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Norway is just as bad. They tax a car there on three principles according to my mate what lives there. One its weight, two its engine size, and three its power output. A range rover sport over there stings you for stupid money. My 10 year old HSE would cost you nearly 50k euro's over there and monthly over 500 euro in tax. Hollands wised up to the fact that diesel and LPG are cheaper to run than petrol and levy higher tax on these vehicles than benzine ones to ensure that just because the pump price of diesel is 35 cents less and LPG 85 cents less per litre they still get their pound of flesh. If you actually sit down and figure out how much tax you pay you'd be horrified. I think your average Joe works out at about 70% of total income goes in the chancellors pocket. 22% income tax 10% NI before you even see your money 17% VAT on everything you buy so say you spend only quarter your wages on stuff thats in total 4.25% of your wagesdirectly gone. But it doesn't stop there though. The product you buy has a profit in it (thats taxed) the people that make that product get paid wages (that are taxed) the raw materials that the product is made from are taxed so in effect the item you buy has huge amounts of tax hidden inside it. utilities and insurance are levied at 5% So say 1/3 of your money goes on them. More tax Then look at how much running a car costs. Firstly you have an annual price of circa £200 pure tax and then 80% of fuel costs goes in the coffers. So the more you drive the more you pay the chancellor. Now look at how much duty above the 17% luxury goods such as alchohol and tobbaco sting you for (I'm not sure on this but its quite a high percentage). So if you like to go out and have a drink and smoke a tab or two then you are contributing even more. Say the rest of your money gets eaten up by mortgage payments that again some of gets taxed because the interest is profit for the lender. If you decide not to buy anything, drink anything, smoke anything, or drive a car your whole life but save all your money or invest it somewhere tax free, when you die and leave the damn money to someone the chancellor will take 50% of it anyways. All those little percents here and little percents there add up. Now earn bigger money and just start to cry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 22% income tax I wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 HAH well earn less and its possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovervi Posted December 3, 2006 Author Share Posted December 3, 2006 got a good response on this wonder what its up to now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 And I must confess that although I don't support this - from a purely selfish perspective there are some schemes I would be happy to see, even though they would be unpopular with many motorists. I think the M6 toll is excellent - and I'd be happy to see more motorways become toll roads. As I say - it's purely for selfish reasons - the traffic is a nightmare, tolls would reduce it and I wouldn't get stuck in traffic so much. Untill all motorways are toll roads like in Japan, and everyone has to pay to make the same journey they do now! I drove my girlfriend home on Saturday, it's only 40km but it cost me 10quid each way on the toll roads. Driving through Tokyo is fun too, there you pay the toll and then sit in traffic for hours..... There's no justification for a toll road when you already pay road tax and extortionate fuel duty. Tax in the name of climate change is a crock IMO, nothing more than a nice way of generating revenue which can then be wasted on christ knows what. They can sell it to the masses because it's in the name of "saving the environment", laughing all the way to the bank.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Geneb Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Robbing fookers if fuel costs weren't enough they try this. whats next Compulsary donations to number 10's summer pissup were they send the old bill round to rob you house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Yawn... it's a well known saying, there are only two things that are certain in life - Death and Taxes. Nowt you can do about it, put up or shut up. Or vote Tory - you think they will be any better? Think again. The only real answer is: work harder and earn more. Don't waste your money on frivolous things. Save more. Learn to be tax efficient. Easily said I know, but the rudiments are quite simple really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Yawn... it's a well known saying, there are only two things that are certain in life - Death and Taxes. Nowt you can do about it, put up or shut up. Or vote Tory - you think they will be any better? Think again. The only real answer is: work harder and earn more. Don't waste your money on frivolous things. Save more. Learn to be tax efficient. Easily said I know, but the rudiments are quite simple really. It's this attitude that lets the government tax people more and more. The problem is once you have a government in place that introduces these polices you're stuffed. Even if the Tories come in, they're just keep them in place and blame their implementation on Labour. I don't mind paying tax, I just like to see something in return. I agree it pays to be tax efficient though. You need to look at how hard you work, how much you pay in tax, and whether the quality of life is worth it. In my case it wasn't, so I f*cked off abroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Everyone blames the government - for what...? There are too many cars on the roads... this snarls up traffic and costs firms more and more money (unfortunately our freight train network connot cope with the requirements etc) Have you tried to drive to Bristol along the M4. Birmingham M1, M6, Leeds A1 etc etc It's not just in towns...) Be it Labour, Conservative or MRLP every one of them has to, at some time, tackle this probelm (oh... and the decision to recommend this was from an independant cross party committee!) There are too many cars because people actually have MORE money to spend on buying them (OK - mostly through taking out huge CC bills - so either they have TOO MUCH money available - or it is too readily available..! I would suggest the latter) Carbon emissions have risen to nearly 400 ppm (from 170 pmm from last 7000 years to the start of the industrial revolution) and will likely go to 500 ppm by 2050 Go figure... Oh...and when people say 'it's part of the earth's cycle' they are not taking into account that such occurances take place over a long period of time - not the 200 years since we started burning fossil fuels This will potentially leave London under about 3 ft of water So sticking your head in the sand and a. Hoping it goes away b. That the government will somehow magically sort it all out Is not going to help... Sorry guys - I hate it, but this will be the price of having and owning a car in the UK... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Everyone blames the government - for what...? There are too many cars on the roads... this snarls up traffic and costs firms more and more money (unfortunately our freight train network connot cope with the requirements etc) Have you tried to drive to Bristol along the M4. Birmingham M1, M6, Leeds A1 etc etc It's not just in towns...) Be it Labour, Conservative or MRLP every one of them has to, at some time, tackle this probelm (oh... and the decision to recommend this was from an independant cross party committee!) There are too many cars because people actually have MORE money to spend on buying them (OK - mostly through taking out huge CC bills - so either they have TOO MUCH money available - or it is too readily available..! I would suggest the latter) Carbon emissions have risen to nearly 400 ppm (from 170 pmm from last 7000 years to the start of the industrial revolution) and will likely go to 500 ppm by 2050 Go figure... Oh...and when people say 'it's part of the earth's cycle' they are not taking into account that such occurances take place over a long period of time - not the 200 years since we started burning fossil fuels This will potentially leave London under about 3 ft of water So sticking your head in the sand and a. Hoping it goes away b. That the government will somehow magically sort it all out Is not going to help... Sorry guys - I hate it, but this will be the price of having and owning a car in the UK... Paul - good points on the numbers of cars, however in London you must admit that the policies of Mr Livingstone have made the traffic / road situation in the capital a lot worse than before his time. With regards to more cars being on the roads - that could well be true and perhaps if there was a better public transport alternative then people would use it. I for one notice that the trains, buses, underground (again London specific) are packed - so not as if people are NOT using public transport - you try and get people out of their cars then you need to provide them with a suitable alternative. Even if they succeed in stopping ALL CARS from driving in the UK TODAY - there is very little to say that the impact on reducing pollution will be significant. Point being - linking fossil fuel pollution to global warming is a bit rich without having all the evidence. I'd like to see the analysis of the impact of this road charging on business and the economy...... What about the growing population, we are @ approx 6 Billion people today and in order to sustain the american lifestyle for 3Bn people, you would need 3 earth planets apparently. With other countries developing and trying to live the american dream, I guess "global warming" on a GLOBAL scale is taking off like a rocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Very very good points MR E. Blaming the government is indeed a national pastime. But in some cases for good reason, they are the ones that are meant to sort all this crap out not let it snowball out of control. Effective traffic management takes population mindset management. To start with the first think that has got to go is the 9-5 mentality of the workforce. The main problems on the roads are recognised as being at work start 7-10 and work finish 16-19 hours. If industry sat down and came up with a positive plan to stagger the working days (the government are the only agency big enough to chair a meeting of that proportion) then the traffic load would be more evenly distributed. Two of the policies in Holland make sense as well. Trucks between certain hours are not allowed out of the inside lane, this allows the cars to flow better, in some places the trucks are taken away from the main traffic alltogether. And carpooling on a national scale. Practically every motorway junction or town has a carpooling carpark (in britain they'd have to be policed due to the crime but thats another issue in its own right). Carpooling is actively encouraged and I don't know any of the guys that commute here do so on their own in their vehicles. Its common sense get 2 people in 1 car instead of 1 person in one car you half the traffic load. Taxing people to use the roads is just not working. The government know they can't levy any more duty on the cost of fuel as its perilously close to that £1 a litre margin so all they really are doing is trying to find another way to do it. That will be the case for any other administration. Traffic is a problem that won't go away until something is organised, just point blank extra taxing is effectively the same as sticking your head in the sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Ok we have too much water and Mars has not enough I say dump some there, terraform mars and problem solved. Right whats the next world crisis?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Good Article here.... Good Write-up here - Click Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovervi Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 Good Article here.... Good Write-up here - Click Link Nice one good this is a good article and i agree that if getting to work using public transport was as easy then i would use it and have plenty of time to make sweet alterations to my beloved daily drive supra. The part i dont agree with is this The technology will soon be in place to allow the government to introduce - probably via satellite - different charges depending on when people use their cars. This means gas-guzzling rush-hour roadhogs will get busted in the wallet for using up the limited road resources, while mid-morning country drivers get to pay less because they are using the roads less travelled. So far so good. Not so far so good no, why should i be taxed because my employer tells me i have to be at work for a certain time. Its always the working class who end up paying. I dont swear but this is a massive, great big load of b0110cks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovervi Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 phew glad i got that out of my system, nearley exploded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Everyone blames the government - for what...? There are too many cars on the roads... this snarls up traffic and costs firms more and more money (unfortunately our freight train network connot cope with the requirements etc) Have you tried to drive to Bristol along the M4. Birmingham M1, M6, Leeds A1 etc etc It's not just in towns...) Be it Labour, Conservative or MRLP every one of them has to, at some time, tackle this probelm (oh... and the decision to recommend this was from an independant cross party committee!) There are too many cars because people actually have MORE money to spend on buying them (OK - mostly through taking out huge CC bills - so either they have TOO MUCH money available - or it is too readily available..! I would suggest the latter) Carbon emissions have risen to nearly 400 ppm (from 170 pmm from last 7000 years to the start of the industrial revolution) and will likely go to 500 ppm by 2050 Go figure... Oh...and when people say 'it's part of the earth's cycle' they are not taking into account that such occurances take place over a long period of time - not the 200 years since we started burning fossil fuels This will potentially leave London under about 3 ft of water So sticking your head in the sand and a. Hoping it goes away b. That the government will somehow magically sort it all out Is not going to help... Sorry guys - I hate it, but this will be the price of having and owning a car in the UK... Jeez Paul, so you think we could patch up the ozone layer with £50 notes? When was the last London Pea Souper? I'll accept the nearest decade rather than nearest day. Is there too much traffic ont he roads- well what are you going to do with an empty road- who chooses who should drive along it- only the rich? What about the rest of us? There is a spangly government website that works out alternative routes to substitute car journeys for public transport- here you go, die laughing: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=332792&f=23&h=0 It's not even competative to a car, even if I'm doing 20mph along the M25 the car is still quicker AND cheaper- even if fuel doubled, I had to pay £300 parking permits and pay £1.25 per mile the car is still cheaper. I'm hardly going to rip myself off and waste my own time. Regarding your environmental concerns- what's the big deal with C02- it's not even a particuly nasty gas- is Kengestion going to charge marathon runners in April for all the C02 they'll exhale? Did you know that 4 men cycling to work togeather produce more C02 than if they went in one Ford Focus 1.8? It was warmer in the Jurrassic than it is now, but C02 levels were lower. Britain is responsible for just 2% of global C02 emmisions, of which only 2% is private cars- so even if we all gave up our cars tomorow for ever it'd make no difference and China would make up our anual shortfall in 20 minutes. It's like pissing into a swimming pool to change the colour of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 That website is funny - my daily drive: 35 minutes up the M3, approximate cost: £6.65 on fuel. On public transport: 1 hour 39 minutes, costing as much as £17.30. I needed a good laugh to start the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Good post Gazboy, it's a crock. I wouldn't dream of driving to work in Japan, the public transport here is nothing short of staggering and reasonably priced too. It's been a joke in the UK for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethr Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 The trouble is that the way society works depends on personal transport. Personal transport allowed supermarkets and then hypermarkets to kill off the corner shop. Personal transport allowed out-of-town shopping centres. Personal transport (and public transport originally) allowed companies to close small local offices and factories (do we still have factories?). If they are serious about reducing travel, they need to wind the clock back about 50 years so that we can afford to live near our work, so that we can shop at the end of the street, so that our places of work are local, so that local produce is consumed locally. It's not a matter of choice. Do they think we WANT to spend our time stuck in traffic jams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 But that's linked directly to house prices too. I used to live in Stokenchurch because it was cheap, but there are no jobs there so you have to commute. Where I live now, there are no jobs that would sufficiently pay my mortgage, so I commute to Watford. I couldn't afford to buy a house as nice as mine, in an area as nice as this in Watford, so I don't live there (not that'd I'd want to). You travel to where the money is, but you live where your money will take you. If we stopped subsidising farmers to do sweet fuck all, and bought the land off them and stuck some houses on there, with decent gardens too I might add, then demand would be satisfied and the average house price would be in reach of the average wage, much like it was when my parents bought a 3 bed semi with a garden to raise us kids 30 years ago. The whole personal transport gig is directly linked to not enough suitable homes being built. The whole global warming thing has sweet fuck all to do with personal car use, but industry in China, India, Russia & the USA, who combined make up 75% of the worlds waste. As noted somewhere else on this thread, if governemnts were seriois about global warming, then they would make India and China sign the Kyoto agreementy, thus securing the signitures of the USA and Russia, who boycotted the Kyoto deal because it exempted China and India. Assuming global warming is directly linked to man in the first place seeing as the sun's output has increased, and with smaller polar ice caps to reflect that sunlight each year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethr Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 I always wonder what would have happened if our present "civilization" had existed at the end of the last ice age. Now that would really have given the global warming industry something to complain about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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