chilli Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 has anyone on here ever lost it because RLTC has made things worse for them rather than better? that's kinda what is being suggested on here, I wonder if there is any evidence of it because there are loads of cases where it has helped out (and lets face it we are only going to hear about the crashes not the times when something like RLTC silently went about its job and saved what could have turned nasty). remember RLTC doesn't cut all the power (like stock TC), only enough to keep traction. So if you are in the slide you have enough power to get the car balanced again - it will just stop you adding too much power and spining the wheels up even more and making things worse - this is a good thing not a bad thing! of course everyone should concentrate 100% all of the time (although how many people can maintain 100% race mode concentration all of the time? It's very tiring after an hour or twos driving) nethertheless, whatever the case accidents happen and anyone who thinks it could never happen to them is a fool tbh couldn't agree more that you still need to know how to drive and handle the car first though. RLTC is something to help stop you get into the situation when unexpected things happen - but you can still find yourself in a slide for other reasons and when that happens you have to know how to deal with it, there are no effective gadgets for that - except the one in your head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 RLTC will use all the tractive effort your tyres will supply....and a little bit more depending on how much slip you've dialed in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 RLTC will use all the tractive effort your tyres will supply....and a little bit more depending on how much slip you've dialed in. exactly, and allowing you more power than the tyres can deal with is what makes things worse not better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Chilli - I'm not trying to discredit RLTC, I'm just trying to show people that fitting a TC system is not the simple answer to stopping a car from sliding. There are arguments on boths sides of the dibate which hold a lot of weight. But by putting 100% reliability on a TC system when driving can be dangerous way of thinking/driving. I'd be interested to know how does RLTC control power delivery through the LSD ? Is it an even distribution or is it a logic distribution (similar to how the logic ABS works?) Or is it all done with the LSD ignored, and left to do its own job as its separate device? I'd say a good LSD would work better than electrical power cut/application method, but thats just my own opinion. But saying that though the new electrical LSDs that Ferrari use (eDIFF) are said to be the best set up, which is a form of electrically controlled power application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I'd be interested to know how does RLTC control power delivery through the LSD ? Is it an even distribution or is it a logic distribution (similar to how the logic ABS works?) Or is it all done with the LSD ignored, and left to do its own job as its separate device? Er, it's only wired up to the ABS sensors and the fuel injectors... Plus the diff is mechanical. There are a lot of configuration things you can do but basically if it detects the rear wheels going lots faster than the fronts then it cuts injectors. It may sound simple but it's very flexible and knows when you are turning and so forth. It's also very very effective. You can still get lateral sliding in the wet though so you've gotta have your wits about you at all times. Drive like it's not there and you can't go far wrong. I can't believe we haven't got any "Real Men Don't Use Traction Control" heroes posting up yet -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I can't believe we haven't got any "Real Men Don't Use Traction Control" heroes posting up yet -Ian I don't use it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I don't use it He said REAL men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonas Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I prefer to just drive like a pansy in the wet rather than relying on any traction control. I do myself and you get the boy racers in their corsas up your arse!!! these cars need respect and I don't mind going slow in wet to look after it and myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I would love to have the attitude of I dont use TC and if my car was a sunny day only one then yeah I wouldnt even think of it. The only reason for a car to go into a skid/slide is a driver error further up the line of events Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I dont have any TC setup at the moment but now have the gear ratio tables setup in the AEM so hoping to start using that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Trouble with that is, you lose about half your grip in the wet - so just when you need the traccy control, it's a far lazier response as you are spinning up well before your preset parameters... That's the way I see it anyway - does it work that way? -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Trouble with that is, you lose about half your grip in the wet - so just when you need the traccy control, it's a far lazier response as you are spinning up well before your preset parameters... That's the way I see it anyway - does it work that way? -Ian Are you refering to the AEM or something else? If its the AEM then you can setup a dash mounted adjustment similar to the RLTC, you can turn the sensitivity up and down on the fly. I think it would be pretty pointless without this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Having driven an EVO with active YAW control unless you are a complete nob I find them very difficult to crash. Tell it what to do and it does it. Hammer them into a corner and they always seem to come out of it the other end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 haha my bro's mate totally stacked his evo too fast in the wet there was nothing he could do all we ended up doing was look at each other and shrug, spun about 2 times before ending up in a ditch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 no car is uncrashable in the right (wrong) hands, no matter what you do to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 yeah he was driving with the thought that it was and learnt the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Brief description of how RL actually works... The system monitors all four wheel speeds via the ABS wheel signal lines. If the RL unit detects a predetermined variance in wheel speeds, (Adjustable via the dial on the dashboard, ie 10% and three percentage 'cut tables' in the sofware), it will then start cutting out one injector to every four fired, for it's first 'cut' sequence. If the wheel speeds are greater, it will then begin it's second cut sequence, which it to prevent one injector opening, to every three fired. If the wheel speeds are even greater, it will then remove one opening every other injector. In other words, say you were travelling at 100 mph, and the RL noticed the rear wheels were moving at 130mph, it would instigate 'hard', then 'meduim', then 'soft' injector cut until the wheels were spinning at the percentage set by the dash adjuster. (10%=110mph). Soft = 111101111011110 Medium = 1110111011101110 Hard = 1010101010101010 About five of years back, I did a trackday in York. In the morning, it was nice and dry with sunshine and a cool breeze. I was getting low 13's on the dragstrip. Later in the afternoon, it started pooring with rain. My quarter mile times went up to high 13's. That's got to be a good testomony to how well it works in the rain. As for Clarksons opinions. In the recent GT4 vs Cosworth video, Jeremy says, "I usually look forward to driving a Toyota with the same enthusiasm as a visit to the dentist" - So, if we all believed everything he said, we'd be selling our Supra's right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheefa Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Great post Matt! Didn't have a clue about the techy techy bits, but yep, RLTC seems to cut down times in the wet and whether it saves you or not, it is an "assistant" worth having. Anyone see Jonathon Ross & Clarkson the other night? Quite amusing. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Are you refering to the AEM or something else? If its the AEM then you can setup a dash mounted adjustment similar to the RLTC, you can turn the sensitivity up and down on the fly. I think it would be pretty pointless without this. Yeah, the AEM. I didn't know there was an adjuster - yes it would be pretty pointless without it Still sounds like a bugger to set up though, I do like the fire-and-forget nature of RLTC. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Having driven an EVO with active YAW control unless you are a complete nob I find them very difficult to crash. Tell it what to do and it does it. Hammer them into a corner and they always seem to come out of it the other end You can't defy physics. On a related note, if you stacked it & the accident investigators saw that you had turned your TC/RLTC off prior to the accident, would that have any effect on the outcome of a payout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 With the AEM, it does everything based on engine revs alone right? I wonder if it can really be as good as RLTC since it doesn't also have 4 wheel speed sensors and so can't judge everything relative to the front wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Here is a snapshot of the AEM TC setup from a US owner, I still need to give this a try myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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