Supra is a 'Ard Nut

[Rayman]

Another point to mention is the way other drivers react and therefore drive around you too. This is the biggest difference i have found since beginning supra ownership. It does make you push the car harder as they often will take undue risks just to try and show you up particularly thru corners.

I cant imagine what it would be like to drive something like a ferrari regularly. That must be even worse!

[Class One]

Without being too blah blah blah....when I did my advanced course my instructor said something along the lines of:

 

"Technology is there in a car to assist you and sometimes save you, but should NEVER be relied upon to dig you out of the shit. If your technology on the car intervenes, then usually it's telling you that you've overdone it for the conditions or situation."

 

Granted, something like RLTC will help you get more out of your car, espescially if you're running big power, but don't expect it to save your arse if you're too heavy with the right foot.

 

White lines, manhole covers, compression joints, deisel, change of road surface all all the things that can upset your car and catch you out.

 

BTW this is no dig at SK, or anyone else, just a pointer in the right direction.

 

SK glad you and your mates are ok, glad you all walked away, and knew what happened. Hope you can learn from it mate. Better luck with your next car.

[R Black]

Glad your all ok and can smile about, think i'd be way too peev'ed with myself to smile for a while.

My key word for driving in the wet is SMOOTHNESS.

[Matt Harwood]

I'm a big fan of the Racelogic Traction Control system. It truely is an excellent piece of kit. It really amazes me when people say 'you shouldn't need it'.

OK, no, if you're a fantastic driver and more alert than most, then maybe you don't need it. -

Relied upon? No. There's no substitute for learning how to drive a powerful RWD car, and no substitute for driving according to the road conditions. But RLTC truely is a fantastic safety net. It will certainly help you in a variety of situations. Exactly like this one.

Granted, it may not be the cheapest thing to buy, but it's cheaper that getting a rear quarter repaired.

 

When buying a TT. If there were two virtually identical cars for sale. If one was £9000, the other was £9500, and the cheaper one didn't have ABS, I doubt many people would have bought the one without ABS just to save £500 - Would they?

 

Sorry about the tangent.

 

Sorry to see your car like this SK. Glad you all walked away from it.

[R Black]

RLTC are like a grand fitted right?

[bignum]

Thats a mess sk, i think someone was looking after you and your pals that day, after i had a misshap( nothing too bad) it was either sell up or learn to drive the car, so my m8 booked us in on a trackday with driver tuition, well i got the bug and after a dozen trackdays or so in wet and dry conditions it really sharpens up the driving skills, so my message is" lets get on the track.":D

[RobSheffield]

Good god, only just seen this, glad you are ok though

[Darren-K]

suprakid a little bit of t-cut and itll be ok man !

that`ll just buff out !

im glad to see that you and yer mates are ok

[Gazboy]

I'm a big fan of the Racelogic Traction Control system. It truely is an excellent piece of kit. It really amazes me when people say 'you shouldn't need it'.

OK, no, if you're a fantastic driver and more alert than most, then maybe you don't need it. -

Relied upon? No. There's no substitute for learning how to drive a powerful RWD car, and no substitute for driving according to the road conditions. But RLTC truely is a fantastic safety net. It will certainly help you in a variety of situations. Exactly like this one.

Granted, it may not be the cheapest thing to buy, but it's cheaper that getting a rear quarter repaired.

 

 

I agree with you to a point, but imo people are over-relying on electronics- some people think that a Evo9 is uncrashable- pure physics tells us otherwise. I work with a guy who insists his Audi cannot be involved in a single vehicle accident because of the computers 'driving' the car.

 

The F18 can't be flown without it's computer- every simulation and test flight without it has proven this, but a Supra isn't a F18, and for people to think they can't be driven in the wet without RLTC is not only tragic, but badly misguided.

[Matt Harwood]

RLTC are like a grand fitted right?

 

 

 

More like £600-£650ish Sometimes cheaper if there's a big group buy going on...

[Chiefgroover]

I agree with you to a point, but imo people are over-relying on electronics- some people think that a Evo9 is uncrashable- pure physics tells us otherwise. I work with a guy who insists his Audi cannot be involved in a single vehicle accident because of the computers 'driving' the car.

 

The F18 can't be flown without it's computer- every simulation and test flight without it has proven this, but a Supra isn't a F18, and for people to think they can't be driven in the wet without RLTC is not only tragic, but badly misguided.

 

 

Well said that man, how true !

[Pig]

for people to think they can't be driven in the wet without RLTC is not only tragic, but badly misguided.

 

I dont think anyone would think that. They are fine if you use them with care. However, if your going to overtake or you put your foot down a little harder than you realised for what ever reason it can stop the back end sliding out.

[SupraKid]

I dont think anyone would think that. They are fine if you use them with care. However, if your going to overtake or you put your foot down a little harder than you realised for what ever reason it can stop the back end sliding out.

 

Thats more then a good enough reason to fit an RLTC imo!

[Pig]

Im in near stanstead airport. Feel free to pop round and ill give you a demo.

[Matt Harwood]

I agree with you to a point, but imo people are over-relying on electronics- some people think that a Evo9 is uncrashable- pure physics tells us otherwise. I work with a guy who insists his Audi cannot be involved in a single vehicle accident because of the computers 'driving' the car.

 

The F18 can't be flown without it's computer- every simulation and test flight without it has proven this, but a Supra isn't a F18, and for people to think they can't be driven in the wet without RLTC is not only tragic, but badly misguided.

 

 

OK, so there are some daft people about. My point is, I'd bet RLTC would probably have prevented this, and many other crashes.

Obviously I can't say that for certain, but there are more and more people from the younger generation that are not used to RWD cars, let alone powerful ones, that could use all the help they can get. I'm not saying they're bad drivers. Even F1 drivers have traction control.

I'm comparing it to ABS. Both are tried and tested safety aids.

 

If anyone has ever felt 'caught out' or daunted or even nervious by the way the back slides so easiliy in the wet, I'd seriously recommend RLTC.

If I were starting again, from a stock Supra. RLTC and UK brakes would be the first thing that would go on the car.

 

If anyone wants a demo in a car with RLTC fitted just ask

[Gazboy]

Terry already demo'd the rltc to me last winter- it's very impresive and a fantastic safety net, but my point is, if the UK Viper club can survive without T/C (and they have atleast 450lbs/ft from tickover) then maybe we should too? Imi asked about BMW/Merc/Ferrari/Noble/TVR owners and after a brief search of UK owners only TVR & BMW really stood out for crashing. BMW because of sheer numbers of cars sold, and TVR because chassis design is woeful at best (Sagaris excepted) and they weigh 950-1300kg- Supras have very good chassis, we have a very wide selection of tyres available to us and there aren't that many cars compared to BMW- so what's the common denominator- I hate to say it & I'm touching wood cos I ain't perfect but surely it's down to the driver first and foremost? A company like Toyota would have recalled the Supra within months of launch if there was a severe wet weather handling trait.

[Bobbeh]

Agreed, its just people pushing it too hard in the wrong conditions.

[Matt Harwood]

I doubt very much that many Merc/Ferrari/Noble/TVR owners are sub 25 and look for the cheapest tyres they can find.

BMW's on the other hand are probably in exactly the same situation, and share common results.

TVR are just in a league of their own. Extreme power, NA extreme power at that! Absolutly no safety aids, and light as a feather... Not suprising that they often end up facing the wrong way!

 

When I got my first Supra, I'd say the average age of ownership was about 30. Most of which had had plenty of RWD experience, and some of which were experimenting with £500 tyre swaps for the hell of it. Back then, it was rare for a Supra to get killed in these circumstances.

Again, before I get flamed for it, I'm not saying all young drivers are crap drivers. Alex had a Supra before me, (he was 22 at the time IIRC), and he didn't have Racelogic on his first one, and he survived without stuffing it, so it IS possible.

[Matt Harwood]

Besides, Ferrari's don't come out in the rain because they start to de-compose!

[Guest Geneb]

you are one lucky fooker man glad your all ok

 

second one today i really am considering getting rid of mine now cus i aint the worlds best driver as it is.

umm 3000GTO or Scooby me thinks:search:

[Marty]

I think it lies with lack of experience, in a rwd car, in bad conditions, the 2nd turbo kicking in is enough to cause problems in dry conditions never mind wet/damp. if your turning slightly, and you light them back wheels up your in trouble, especially in bad conditions.

Still, glad you and your mates are ok buddy.

Ive got to completely disagree with your commment about ferarri's gaz.

Im subscribed to this site .. http://www.wreckedexotics.com

new pics every month, and at least 30% of the cars that feature, are ferraris.

[Gazboy]

I think it lies with lack of experience, in a rwd car, in bad conditions, the 2nd turbo kicking in is enough to cause problems in dry conditions never mind wet/damp. if your turning slightly, and you light them back wheels up your in trouble, especially in bad conditions.

 

Ive got to completely disagree with your commment about ferarri's gaz.

Im subscribed to this site .. http://www.wreckedexotics.com

new pics every month, and at least 30% of the cars that feature, are ferraris.

 

...and if Supras were exotic...

 

Ok, I'll change my stance- from what I've read on the UK based Ferrari forums crashes aren't that common

[terribleturner]

I agree with you to a point, but imo people are over-relying on electronics-

 

and for people to think they can't be driven in the wet without RLTC is not only tragic, but badly misguided.

 

Agreed, its just people pushing it too hard in the wrong conditions.

 

I was only saying to Sabrina this morning that too many people think RLTC will save them recently in threads. I've heard and read too many horror storries over the last 2 and a half years of ownership to know you can't be stupid and take th slightest chance. Of course i'll floor it and drivee on the limit, but i know with a wet road coming off a roundabout common sense tell's me it's a potential danger area. I really feel for your loss SK, but these cars are big and powereful and even Sabrina in her NA has had the backend slip out the other day. And as Jamie always says the best forrum of TC is your right foot.

[Terminator]

I am really glad SupraKid and his mates are OK. He certainly wont be the first this winter. Same every year I have owned my MKIV. There have been a fair number of younger drivers writing off MKIV recently, so I expect the premiums for the under 25 will take a hike soon.

 

Any powerful RWD car needs treating with respect especially in the wet. The MKIV is not the most tail happy RWD car I have driven but it does break away if pushed hard in poor conditions on tires not up to the job and alignment that is not spot on, if push too hard for the conditions. Remember that the car was originally designed to run on 16's. Toyota then offered 17's as an option before moving to 17's across all TT's. Suspension experts recommend that the car not be pushed beyond 17's or handling will be compromised.

 

Having driven RWD cars for more years than some of you have been alive I think I am relatively experienced driver of RWD cars. It amuses me greatly when people who can only have been legally driving for 3 - 5 year start pontificating about how unnecessary saftey aids are on powerful cars. Toyota considered it necessary on the MKIV TT so provided a system, all be it not very effective but I guess they were wrong too.

 

Race Logic Traction Control is a very sophisticated system, used widely in motor sport. Unless you have actually used it in a variety of road conditions you are not qualified to comment on its appropriateness. Whilst it can not make up for bad driving it is a real safety feature and it will prevent some situations getting out of control.

 

So far as far as I know no one in the club has been killed in a MKIV or killed another road user. Lets hope it never happens. Race logic would almost certainly prevented the majority of straight line sudden loss of traction incidents and some involving corners. RLTC really comes into is own in the wet making drain covers, white lines and other surfaces that suddenly reduce grip less of a worry.

 

To suggest that peope who have driver aids rely one them and cant do with out them is insulting. I have only ever met one driver who totally relied on ABS, his car broke down and he got a loan car without ABS, he had run into the back of someone within 20 minutes. He admitted that he just planted his foot and expected the car to do the rest.Anyone who did the same with racelogic would also be an idiot. A good driver always tries to drive with in his/her, the car's and the prevailing condition limits. I manage to persuade my insurance company that RLTC was a safety aid not a performance aid and they reduced the premium.

 

I think it would be very helpful to other members if those who don't rate RLTC to state how many miles they have driven with RLTC so that we all know that they are criticising from an informed stand point. I have used it for over 5 years and would not want to be with out it,even though I can handle the car in all conditions with out it.

 

For those of you who are not driving gods, RLTC is worth serious consideration before making any power upgrades. £500 - £600 is a lot less than a repair and the subsequent insurance hike. It may also save someone from serious injury or death.

 

 

PS Suprakid, if you decide to get another MKIV and are going to get RLTC fitted, let me know an I will make sure you get it set up properly.

[Homer]

Phil, sadly there's a couple of people been killed this year in mkiv's (and a few in previous years), one this year was a forum member.

 

Anyway, I think you've missed the point again on an RLTC discussion. What many are trying to say is that newbies shouldn't rush out and buy RLTC as a 'cure all' for driver inexperience. Those new to RWD should carefully learn how the car handles, then, and only then, invest in trickery to assist them when things go wrong.

 

Personally I don't see a need for RLTC on stock or BPU Supra's, people just need to learn how to use their right foot and point the wheel in the right direction. Big HP cars is another matter all together.