Air Filters again - The Big Question

[Vaughany]

I have been running a HKS SPF for the past 9 months on my J-Spec TT. Every so often a thread pops up saying how bad these filters are at filtration but the question never really gets answered. ARE THESE FILTERS BAD FOR THE SUPRA and if so why are alot of people running them and various tuners recommending them.

 

I am trying to get a honest answer so I can decide whether to put back on the standard box with an uprated panel filter, keep the HKS Kit or replace this with a Apexi Kit that tests have shown to have better filtration.

 

The HKS kit that I have has its filter replaced every 7000 miles and I dont drive it to often looking to cover about 10000 miles per annum. How many people on here are running the HKS SPF, have you experienced any problems due to this kit?

 

What am I to do, I am hoping the Tuners/Experts will get involved and finally put this GHOST to rest.

 

Thanks

[outatime]

Have a look further down the tech forum

 

Or here

[Vaughany]

Hi Mate

 

Yeh I have read this but maybe I am abit sceptical and it still does'nt answer why some UK Tuners are still recommending them and why alot of the Big Supras/Skylines are running them.

 

If they are so BAD why have they got them on there cars. The debate goes on!

[outatime]

IMO, most people have aftermarket filters because they look and sound nice. The first thing most kids ask me about my car is if I have a filter on it...

 

Obviously, high BHP Supras/skylines need the extra air offered by an aftermarket filter, but this added flow comes at a cost - poorer filtration.

 

As well as sucking in all the crap and dust from the engine bay, an open filter will draw in hot air, as it is not ducted like the stock one.

 

The stock one is perfectly sufficient for 99% of cars.

[michael]

A truly powerful drag car will run with no filter at all, at best gauze over the turbo intake - on a car with huge BHP the owners tend to forsake things like fitration as they generally put the engine apart quite often anyway.

 

The HKS filter seem to be the next step up from gauze, they filter a lot of crap but not as much as other filters, they do a job, just not as well as others.

 

Personally I wouldn't have one given but then I have the stock airbox too so I'm easily pleased

[Alex]

Maybe I'm being cynical in as far as some tuners/box shifters don't care, they want your money, more fool you if you pay for these items. They will happily supply what ever people want (and why shouldn't they) and people like HKS. They trust the brand...its just a shame people don't actually ask enough questions first.

 

Buyer Beware etc etc.

 

If people are happy to risk it they will, I expect the GReddy foam one is similar.

 

The information is here...if people don't want to heed the advice then so be it. Maybe it's part of the reason why some people blow their ceramics at 1.2bar+ and other like myself who had a K&N didn't...ahem but that's just an off the cuff thought.

 

But to summerise.

BEST FOR YOUR ENGINE = STOCK

2nd = STOCK with other filter panel (K&N or TRD)

3rd = APEX'I (in a box if possible)

4th = K&N (In a box if possible)

[Vaughany]

Alex

 

I agree with you, Stock is best for your engine but saying that stock boost is best for your stock turbos aswell but we are all trying to gain more boost (1.2Bar).

 

Looking at the results on the Induction Kits, the Power gains are impressive (13 BHP). What are the gains from a uprated Panel Filter in the stock box?

[outatime]

I would take those figures with a healthy pinch of salt, BHP may well drop with an aftermarket filter. Put your hand near the engine after a run and feel the heat that your filter will be sucking in without shielding...

 

Alex, there is a link between cone filters and turbos going bang? Interesting.

[Syed Shah]

Originally posted by Vaughany

 

Yeh I have read this but maybe I am abit sceptical and it still does'nt answer why some UK Tuners are still recommending them

 

Because at the end of the day traders/tuners are out to make money! The reason for coming to a forum is to get the opinion of those that do not profit from your choice.

 

Yes they are crap, even the 'better' ones are still short of the stocker, etc. No debate, just the truth.

[Andyp]

I don't have a problem with my HKS intake. I kinda like them, easy to replace when they get mucky too. Just found out that a spare induction kit in my boot is RE- Amemiya (one of the leading rx7 tuners in japan), been used so think they favoured the HKS one

 

Asked Leon what he thought of them when I was up his place, he rates them and uses them himself

 

hope thats of some help

[Alex]

So the independant test and 2x skyline owners's views are wrong then...the HKS kit looks great therefore it is great.

 

[Dragonball]

Originally posted by Alex Holdroyd

Maybe it's part of the reason why some people blow their ceramics at 1.2bar+ and other like myself who had a K&N didn't...ahem but that's just an off the cuff thought.

 

 

Oooo...harsh there m8 - very harsh

 

Why get so upset?

 

I would happily recommend the K&N / TRD with a stock box as number one

 

Thereafter I think they are all very much of a muchness - I have an HKS on mine but will be changing to a Blitz at some stage with a heat shield annd some cold air feed from the front

 

 

 

[Alex]

Eh - harsh?

 

Set up a poll. I'd be interested in the results. It was a thought that just popped into my head as I was typing. To be honest I have no idea what people are running. But it would make sense to me after hearing about other turbo's going tits up on other cars with HKS foam filters.

 

So set up a poll

I blew my j-spec turbo's and I had an HKS kit fitted. etc etc.

 

Would this sort of thing not help??

[outatime]

I'd certainly be interested in this, most people just seem to say 'it was their time to go', or something similar rather than looking further into why the ceramics gave in.

 

Poorly filtered particles attacking the blades can't really help matters at 1.2bar...

[Dragonball]

Originally posted by Alex Holdroyd

Eh - harsh?

 

 

Sounded it - a bit nah nah nah nah nah!

 

Chill bro!

 

Not sure that a poll of the three or four that have gone recently will be representative - but yes I had HKS on!

[SkyJawa]

Originally posted by Paul E

I would happily recommend the K&N / TRD with a stock box as number one

 

 

And I'd happily say I have an almost unused 2nd hand one for sale in the For Sale section right now...

 

[Vaughany]

Maybe we need to set up a Poll to find out exactly what the members are running with regards to air Induction. The categories could be as follows.

 

1) Standard Air box and Filter

2) Standard Box and Uprated Panel Filter

3) HKS SPF Induction Kit

4) Blitz Sus Power

5) Apexi Power Intake

6) K&N Induction

 

It might be interesting to see what we are all running. I was running a HKS Kit but after this thread and reading the link to the Induction Kits I have now ordered a Apexi Kit as this seems to have got the best results when tested.

 

I am wondering how many members are running the poorer kits such as the HKS and Blitz Kits just because of the name, suppossed hype or a recommendation from a Tuner/Trader. Not to point any fingers but I was recommended the HKS kit by a trader and results show (if true) that these are the worst kits out of the 4 market leaders in Induction Kits.

 

It just makes you think who you can trust, is the advice we get sound advice or is it all about pennies in the bank. Dont get me wrong I have got my own mind and I make my own decisions but when an expert tells you that this is the kit to have, I thought okay I will believe him, they know best.

 

If this is not the case, it sort of questions the whole point of having the forum. If I cant trust the traders, should I take anything I hear/read as the truth or is it just someones opinion and not necessarily fact.

[Tannhauser]

Originally posted by Vaughany

[b

 

It just makes you think who you can trust, is the advice we get sound advice or is it all about pennies in the bank. Dont get me wrong I have got my ownmind and I make my own decisions but when an expert tells you that this is the kit to have, I thought okay I will believe him, they know best.

 

If this is not the case, it sort of questions the whole point of having the forum. If I cant trust the traders, should I take anything I hear/read as the truth or is it just someones opinion and not necessarily fact. [/b]

 

Trouble is, to establish 'fact' requires proper independent tests. Which ideally means test carried out by people without a vested interest in the outcome (so that's the HKS tests of their own cams out for a start). Independent tests are time consuming and expensive.

 

There are one or two attempts at this on supraforums and rather less in the UK, but hunt around and you occasionally find something useful.

 

I started a thread some time back lamenting the fact that proper testing is lagging behind marketing...bad news for the punter.

 

So we are left with opinion. I do a lot of searching on here and study the views of those people who are capable of discussing mechanical issues at a high level. I read what they say, note what they have used on their own cars and any problems encountered.

 

If a trader is what I think Alex called a 'box seller' and they haven't got a long history on here of addressing technical problems, I don't pay attention to their recommendations. That DOESN'T mean I wouldn't buy something off them, because they may well be good guys who believe in their products. But if they are only a little bit more knowledgeable than me, I don't think they can fairly evaluate the product.

 

I also search for non-expert BBS views on the product. I check out supraforums and read what people there use.

This can be misleading as people may not really know what's good or bad, but it all helps form an opinion.

 

You can e-mail the company and see what sort of response you get about their product. e.g. I lost faith in one product on my car -and got rid of it - when the company couldn't answer what I thought was a fairly basic question.

 

I like the idea of polls, though I don't think on this particular occasion it will help.

 

Whether you're buying vitamins, insurance, double glazing or car parts, it's the same story: traders have businesses to run. and the onus is on the consumer to try to arm himself with information.

 

I know there are traders on here who take every opportunity to aggressively market products (and rubbish their competitors) but there is a LOT of information too. I feel safer reading a trader's opinion on here and being able to check out what 10 other people say compared to,say, ringing a company up and having no other sources of info.

 

Lastly, there's word of mouth and p.m. Based on personal experience and snippets picked up from others, I know who I trust for good info..... that sort of 'punter's network' is useful, too.