MaveriK Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Weird one here, have just moved to a single setup using the Ultimate. All seemed to be ok but recently the car has refused to start and if you did get it going stalled in drive and ticked over at 1,400 in park. Just hooked my laptop into the E-Manage and thanks to Dan who works for Turbofit noticed the timing figure is all over the shop. It started at 2-4 but then swang from +300 to -150, this is obviously not a good thing. Have upgraded the unit to version 2 and re flashed the unit with the correct map but still the injection hunts. Any ideas as to what is causing this? Would really like a car this Christmas!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Are you using the Greddy injector adaptor ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 - Rev D EManage Ultimate Unit - latest version with modifications to ignition chip mount for greater reliability and reducing likelehood of damage when opening up the unit. - Fields harness - A B C Connector harnesses - AFR input harness - Greddy external pressure sensor - Greddy harness for pressure sensor - Supra specific injector harness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Unfortunately you can't trust the base ignition timing data that the EMU reports on, it's usually all over the place interspersed with brief moments of clarity. It doesn't affect the actual ignition timing of the engine and it also doesn't affect the adjustments the EMU makes, just the datalogging of the stock timing is wrecked. What size injectors are you running, and what ms duty cycle do you get at idle? Have you got a datalog of everything that I can look at? -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 I am running 650's and if i could get the car to start i could monitor the duty cycle. I am taking the plugs out as i will bet they are sopping wet. This should enable me to get the devil started and then log some data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Sounds like no fuel is being pulled out by the map... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 Here is the map i am usingEmanage.ZIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Who mapped it mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Do you have the ability to read your AFRs at idle...? Oh, by the way, switch on the electrics, open the throttle to 100%, then turn the engine over. The EMU will go into "fouled plug cleaning" mode and try to clean them up. Give that 5 seconds, then stop, lift off the throttle completely, and try starting it. Saves all that hassle swapping the plugs I sense you are running very very rich. You've got up to 30% extra duty cycle around the starting and idle load sites Which is odd because usually you have to take *more* fuel out around those two areas, not add it in! Other questions I have - do you have a GReddy pressure sensor, and what bar/psi boost do you run? Oh and what turbo setup I'm assuming you have 650cc injectors... -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Are you using the Greddy injector adaptor ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 It was mapped by Dan at Turbofit and i shall have to ask the question of the injector adaptor. They are indeed 650 injectors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I have looked at the map. I would PM Ian for a map instead. The current attempt isn't right, at all, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I have looked at the map. I would PM Ian for a map instead. The current attempt isn't right, at all, sorry. I agree, +30 dc at idle area is going to cause you grief, the global injector adjustment should take care of that, at least if it was a blue it would be fine, but i haven't gone for larger injectors on the ultimate yet, but unless they have changed the compensation circuitry it should be fine i would at least reset the dc in the idle areas and see if it will start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I don't use the global adjustment at all, I think it's nasty for reasons I've mentioned before (confuses percentages, taints datalogs with incorrect values etc etc). Also one global airflow change for every load site is daft. Those injector duty cycle adjustments are, shall we say, interesting. Yes, +30% at cold start/idle is odd so it's no suprises plugs are getting fouled etc.. Swinging from -9% to +20% within 1psi of boost is an odd strategy as well. It doesn't use the GReddy pressure sensor (it's not set up in the map to use it) so going over 1.2bar would be unwise, however it only appears to have been mapped up to 15psi (1.05bar) anyway, which is also odd. Running 1.4bar should be somewhat discouraged at this time and really shouldn't have been done at all. As for the rest, well, lots of blank maps added in for some reason. There are some airflow adjustments in there but only if you hit 18psi at 500rpm to 2000rpm. The ignition timing stuff is interesting as well. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 Does anyone have an AFR gauge that i would borrow?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Does anyone have an AFR gauge that i would borrow?? I have one you can borrow... http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I have looked at the map. I would PM Ian for a map instead. The current attempt isn't right, at all, sorry. Ian's maps are the business. Good mapping competence is clearly hard to come by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Here is the map i am using Ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Thanks for all your input, i have Pm'ed the thread and messages to Greg (nameless of course) who i am sure will get on top of it once he's back off holiday. Finger crossed i have a car for Christmas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Finger crossed i have a car for Christmas! If not mate, I've got a car that's already been set up, converted well and mapped a-ok by Ian. Hope you get it sorted bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Yeah here's hoping Greg and his team can sort it out However don't be a guinea pig for their tuner to learn the eManage (as he clearly doesn't) without some deal in your favour ie zero labour cost for tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dturne81 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Hi guys I was responsible for setting up Phils car. It ran great on the dyno and on the road but exhibited inconsitent starting when we returned to the workshop which I attributed to the more than random ignition timing values displayed when cranking. The car only started when it showed a reasonable value.... i.e. 10Deg Phil will have his car running spot on as I am going to visit him next week to get to the bottom of this. I HATE! cars that do not start first turn of the key with no throttle at all! no need in this day and age! As I'm sure many of you are aware the EManage ultimate displays an unstable nature especially the early released versions. I have removed so many EUs and blues from cars over the last few years (Ever wondered why there are so many second hand ones available ) I'm contracted by companies such as Turbofit around the UK to ensure customers cars run as well as they possibly can for the parts they have (Within time constraints as I charge by the hour) and I never recommend people use Emanage on highly modified cars. I only recomend full stand alone systems such as AEM, Motec, EFi, MBE, Pectel etc as you have COMPLETE control over every aspect instead of modifying an OEM calibration. That said I have seen many cars running the Blue Emanage fantastically well and when it comes to value for money say no more. Can't say the same for the EU..... PLEASE remember, this is only MY opinion. I only got to read this post this evening and noted that Phil mentions the car idleing at 1400rpm before failing to start again..... Bit of a clue there guys??? Watch this space Best regards Dan (On behalf of Turbofit UK) 01327 340123 07814 434283 http://www.jikan.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 I've not heard of an unstable nature to E-Manage Ultimates? All I know is it logs the stock ignition timing incorrectly, which is just a data logging issue, it doesn't affect what happens with the timing. Can you clarify what you mean by unstable? In fact I think I've heard of two failed units across EMB and EMU, and one of those was due to that early design flaw in the ignition chip on the EMU. The twenty or so I've seen are still going strong. Yes that 1400rpm idle is indeed a clue. Was there a particular reason why you didn't map it past 1.05bar by the way? Phil has been running it at 1.4bar! -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dturne81 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 By unstable I mean inconsistent running, poor starting and numerous communication & logging issues. As I said I'm not a fan of these piggyback Computers as your allways working from an OEM base expecting a standard engine, VE, Turbo efficiency etc. The engine is running safe fueling and ignition at 1.4bar and as Phils says at the beggining of this thread all was fine with the running of the car untill this starting issue arose again. Even Phil describes it as a "weird one here" I'd call it unstable hehe ;-) We'll get to the bottom of this soon and have another happy Turbofit customer who's got fantastic value for their money in my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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