garetheves Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Had a pretty scary moment last night, just thought id warn you all and may be worth checking your policy, especially if you've changed number plateto a private one at all... Picked up and fitted my new bumper last night and didnt have any way of attaching the front plate (tbh was considering leaving it off anyway ). Just about to rejoin the motorway and spot a police car waiting to join the roundabout. I think to myself "oh typical the one day i dont have my plate and hes gonna pull me". Sure enough he follows me half a mile and just as i join the slip road he pulls me over. Dont wait for him to get to my window cos i know what its about so just turn car off and walk to his Range Rover. First words he says to me are "We have a problem here", already im thinking this isnt about the plate. He then informs me that hes done an insurance search and my car is coming back as not insured and legally he could take the car off me right now and make me walk home. Spend the next half hour chatting to him and persuading him that i own the car, insure it etc etc. Tbh hes a decent guy and explains that he doesnt think its not insured, runs a load of checks on the car, says its had loads of money spent on it, im a professional person blah blah blah but there has been an error somewhere. Tells me to get it sorted ASAP. Now, i have got an insurance certificate at home, from Sky, with my new reg on (changed it within a week of getting the car). I have taxed the car with this certificate and my tax disk displays the private reg. But when i phone them this morning, their system, and therefore the insurance database that the police go off, still have the original "L" Reg. It hasnt been updated despite them producing a new certificate. Not very happy with them TBH as i sh*t myself last night, its just as well the guy was a decent copper. All i got was a producer. He didnt even mention the number plate. I think he was gonna pull me for it but the whole insurance thing distracted him Sorry for the long post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian W Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 lucky escape then mate, could have been a lot more hassle by the sounds of things than it actually turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markrzs Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Whooo that was a close one no need to ask who you'll be phoning today ! Hope they get it sorted soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I had a similar situation with my daily driver. I changed the insurance from one car to another only to get pulled over to tell me I was not insured. Upon returning home I called the insurance company only to be told that they had no recollection of the telephone call and nothing showed on there records. As look would have it I hadn't sent the form for ownership off to the DVLA so I registered it in the other halfes name and took my fully comprehensive insurance from my supe down and explained I was driving on that policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Rob_ Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Im sure the police just say that to scare people, they’ve said that to me before, not with the Supe though. When I spoke to my insurance about it, they told me that an insurer isn’t obliged to put details of the insured on the database which the police use, therefore it is very possible that a car will come up uninsured when the PMC it. However, under data protection, isn’t the insurance company legally obliged to keep any info they hold of you up to date? I also thought that you got a few days before any action could be taken for not being able to produce docs, as it isn’t a legal requirement to carry your docs with you. Therefore if an insurance company didn’t put your details on their database, and you don’t carry your docs, the police could rightly taken you’re car off you every time they pull you ??! That’s what ive believed anyway, im sure ill be corrected somewhere shortly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Sounds pretty normal for most insurance companies, but i would have expected better from Sky, who are after all, our club insurer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 If your insurance certificate has the correct plate then there's no need to worry as you're covered. There's also all sorts of reasons why a car might not show up on the insurance database, hence why they would just issue you a producer to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Strangely some people who pay their insurance monthly don't appear on the MID (Motor Insurance Database) as having insurance, so PNC shows no insurance held!! I think that this is because they could pay the first installment then not pay any more & still show as holding insurance for 12 months. Just because the PNC record shows no insurance does not mean its not covered. It would be a big risk to sieze a car on that basis when the driver says it is insured. If PNC shows no insurance and the driver admits there is no insurance THEN the car will be siezed. Otherwise its a 7 day producer. The offence of no documents is commited at the time they are requested by the officer. The 7 day producer is a fair way of dealing with people who don't carry their documents with them, and even though the offence has been committed no further action is taken if it is complied with. If you had no front number plate this could have been combined with a 7 day producer in a VDRS (Vehicle Defect Rectification Scheme) form that also gives you 28 days to get up to 4 faults with the car fixed & inspected by an MOT test station, and you still have to produce your docs in 7 days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garetheves Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 If your insurance certificate has the correct plate then there's no need to worry as you're covered. There's also all sorts of reasons why a car might not show up on the insurance database, hence why they would just issue you a producer to confirm. Oh dont worry i know im covered but just a bit pissed off with Sky for not keeping their records up to date despite them sending out a certificate. If their records were up to date i dont think i would have had the issue last night. I paid the insurance in a lump sum, not monthly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSupra Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 The whole database system sucks in my opinion, A friend of mine got stopped one night because the police said his car wasnt insured, in the end the policeman had to drive the car back to the lads house so he could show him the documents. The part i dont like is that they have the power to take the car away there and then and even if you stroll in the following day and prove you were insured at the time they still land recovery bills and storage on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 The part i dont like is that they have the power to take the car away there and then and even if you stroll in the following day and prove you were insured at the time they still land recovery bills and storage on you. I don't believe they do if it's just that the insurance database doesn't have a record... there'd need to be another reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSupra Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 im not entirely sure im just going by what they told us that night. they were ready to have the car recovered, luckily we were only a few mile from the lads house and he had all his documents there though. It could just be a case of the police trying to look more powerful than they are though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 It could just be a case of the police trying to look more powerful than they are though. Err, they do have the powers 'believing' the car to be uninsured, and the offence of failing to produce documents when requested has been committed.... However there could be problems (i.e. getting sued and abuse of process) if the car is insured and the database is wrong. See my previous post regarding why they're not towed just on the results of the database alone. Thats why its best to get the driver to confirm there's no insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Rob_ Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 It could just be a case of the police trying to look more powerful than they are though. here, here.. K14 SUP, you know too way much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 True Rob, True I have my reasons!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 The offence of no documents is commited at the time they are requested by the officer. the offence of failing to produce documents when requested I didn't know you were legally obliged to carry your docs. Is this a recent thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I didn't know you were legally obliged to carry your docs. Is this a recent thing? Nope, been part of Uk law for years (Section 164 & 165 Road Traffic Act 1988). Driving licence (card & counterpart), MOT & insurance certificate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I didn't know you were legally obliged to carry your docs. Is this a recent thing? You're not (AFAIK), it's just that if you do fail to produce them later they class the date of the offence from when you were stopped (not from the end of the 7 days when you fail to produce). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Nope, been part of Uk law for years (Section 164 Road Traffic Act 1988). (7) Subsection (6) above does not apply where a person required on any occasion under the preceding provisions of this section to produce a licence— (a) produces on that occasion a current receipt for the licence issued under section 56 of the [1988 c. 53.] Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 and, if required to do so, produces the licence in person immediately on its return at a police station that was specified on that occasion, or (b) within seven days after that occasion produces such a receipt in person at a police station that was specified by him on that occasion and, if required to do so, produces the licence in person immediately on its return at that police station. You're not legally required to carry them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garetheves Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 Opens can of worms, Sit back to observe the aftermath. thread> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 You're not legally required to carry them. That applies to reciepts for licences that have been surrendered (i.e. to a court or police officer to have points added under a fixed penalty procedure). The wording of the law is such that : "a person who fails to comply with a requirement (to produce their documents) is GUILTY of an offence. A person shall not be CONVICTED of an offence... if in proceedings against him for the offence he shows that... if within 7 days after the date on which the production from the certificate was required it was produced at a police station that was specified by him at the time when its production was required" So if you don't produce at the roadside you are guilty, however you will not be be convicted by a court if you produce within 7 days!! Its a get around to make it more practical, but the offence is still committed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Sorry to get all anal about this guys I blame Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Sorry to get all anal about this guys Don't be. It's interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garetheves Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 Sorry to get all anal about this guys I blame Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 The problem with traffic law is that its very black & white. Once an offence is committed then its usually game over. Unlike criminal law there's very little in the way of defences (although football superstars seem to find a few good ones!!). Its so tight that rules had to be written in like the HORT1 (7 day producer) as it was felt that it was too much to ask the ordinary motorist to carry everything on every journey. I think (not sure) that prior tothe Road Traffic Act 1988 the offence was committed when the documnets were requested and the next step was court!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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