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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

Superchipping / Remapping An N/a


boombastictiger

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Hi

 

I was having a talk with my automotive teacher and what ways to improve performance on my car...he suggested supperchipping/remapping of the ECU as being a great and cost efficient way of gaining decent power..

 

I have heard alot of people on here saying this wont do anything for a N/A....Why is this??/

 

would superchipping a N/A give any power gains?, if so has anyone got any proof as to how much can be gained?

 

thanks

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To be frank, I'm dissappointed in your teacher's response. That's like asking an electronic's teacher how you can make your stereo louder and him telling you to turn the volume up.

 

As has been discussed on here several times before, you can get big power from an NA but it needs serious work, and its that kind of detail that I'd expect your teacher to be able to tell you.

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To be frank, I'm dissappointed in your teacher's response. That's like asking an electronic's teacher how you can make your stereo louder and him telling you to turn the volume up.

 

Its not even as good as that! To follow the same analogy...

 

Its like them saying, buy a 500 pound microchip which will use a system of trancievers and recievers and servo arms.....to turn the volume up, only on some stereos it just wont work, and on some others it will turn it down :D

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University :(, to be hounest he didnt go into detail, but he never said BIG gains, but he was quite sure about it being possible on cars, superchipping or remappiing, more aggressive timings, could get 10bhp, I dunno, im going to ask him again and make him go into more detail as it is confusing me :(

 

I wonder what the cost £/BHP would be? You can gain more taking the cats out.

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to be hounest he didnt go into detail,

There is no detail, he is reading back the ads he has read in the past

but he never said BIG gains,

There are NO gains, big or small.

Some negative ones might creep in though.

was quite sure about it being possible on cars, superchipping or remappiing, more aggressive timings, could get 10bhp

superchipping and remapping are two different things.

Remapping might give you some limited gains here and there, but not worth the hundreds of pounds you'll have to pay for the hardware and the tuning time on the dyno.

 

Let's put it this way, the teacher is not exactly a 'guru' on automotive mechanics

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Basic principle here. BIG gains are to be had by changing the map on general road vehicles like say older fords, vauxhalls, citroens etc etc because when they were developed they left the factory in a detuned state. Mass manufacturers built in a safety area after all they don't want thousands upon thousands of cars being returned because they blew up.

 

Cars specifically designed as sports cars usually tend to have a much smaller safety zone built in. They also have a bit more time and money spent developing the map. The N/A supra has left the factory with pretty optimal performance built in. Couple that with the fact that the ECU can learn and tweak the map as it goes and it starts to make getting anything aftermarket to do a better job.

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So for instance if you were to modify the intake, and the entire exhaust system on a NA (both cats etc.), would the stock ecu remap itselfs to the optimum settings for the obvious changes in airflow/fuel from the intake/exhaust changes OR

would an air fuel controller properly tuned to take in account the changes give better results??

 

cheers

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So for instance if you were to modify the intake, and the entire exhaust system on a NA (both cats etc.), would the stock ecu remap itselfs to the optimum settings for the obvious changes in airflow/fuel from the intake/exhaust changes OR

would an air fuel controller properly tuned to take in account the changes give better results??

 

cheers

 

 

not sure about OPTIMAL settings, but if its an OBD2 chip, then it will try its best to detune the mods to bring back the AFR to the stock levels.

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not sure about OPTIMAL settings, but if its an OBD2 chip, then it will try its best to detune the mods to bring back the AFR to the stock levels.

 

Sorry, but that's wrong. The only time the ECU adjusts fueling over it's built in map is when it's in closed loop below 4000rpm (ish). It then tries to keep it at stoich (14.7AFR). Otherwise it has no way of adjusting because it only has a narrowband O2 sensor which is useless for anything other than telling the ECU that it's either leaner or richer than 14.7. However, the stock map may well extend beyond the "normal" airflow that you would see unmodified.

 

In fact, I don't think the NA even has a narrowband sensor to do that closed loop adjustment anyway. At least there's no mention of one in the tech manual.

 

The only real adjustment the ECU makes over it's built in map is timing, which will get retarded if it detects knock (det). However, the stock map is pretty good, so you're not going to improve it much unless you have made some big mods in which case a full remap would give you some benefits, but at big cost as has been said. And, as has also been said, the stock ECU can't be remapped.

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The NA has two O2 sensors, one in each 3-branch manifold. And yes, it does use them to perform closed loop, every car does now :)

 

The ECU learns a couple more things besides timing as well, it looks after warm idle and cruise trimming. Closed loop sorts out stoich under cruise but a trim map lets it land closer to stoich once it drops into closed loop, thus saving more fuel etc.

 

As an example of that, mine ran rich after some fiddling once, and I could watch it drop to 10:1's with a prod of the throttle, and it took about three seconds for closed loop to drag it back to stoich. Multiply those 3 seconds of running too much fuel by the amount of times you move the accelerator over several journeys and you get a long time running too rich - I saw a good 2 to 3 mpg drop in economy.

 

-Ian

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