boombastictiger Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Hi I was having a talk with my automotive teacher and what ways to improve performance on my car...he suggested supperchipping/remapping of the ECU as being a great and cost efficient way of gaining decent power.. I have heard alot of people on here saying this wont do anything for a N/A....Why is this??/ would superchipping a N/A give any power gains?, if so has anyone got any proof as to how much can be gained? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hob Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 I'm not sure how it goes for the Supra, but the stock toyota ecu for the celica cannot be remapped, so everyone puts in after market mappable ecu's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 ...would superchipping a N/A give any power gains?, if so has anyone got any proof as to how much can be gained? No and no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 To be frank, I'm dissappointed in your teacher's response. That's like asking an electronic's teacher how you can make your stereo louder and him telling you to turn the volume up. As has been discussed on here several times before, you can get big power from an NA but it needs serious work, and its that kind of detail that I'd expect your teacher to be able to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absz Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 is your teacher at college level or school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 ...how you can make your stereo louder and him telling you to turn the volume up.. It worked for Spinal Tap:d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 The only chip I have in my NA after reading all the threads on here is when I come back from "Mario's Fish & Chip" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 To be frank, I'm dissappointed in your teacher's response. That's like asking an electronic's teacher how you can make your stereo louder and him telling you to turn the volume up. Its not even as good as that! To follow the same analogy... Its like them saying, buy a 500 pound microchip which will use a system of trancievers and recievers and servo arms.....to turn the volume up, only on some stereos it just wont work, and on some others it will turn it down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boombastictiger Posted November 11, 2006 Author Share Posted November 11, 2006 University , to be hounest he didnt go into detail, but he never said BIG gains, but he was quite sure about it being possible on cars, superchipping or remappiing, more aggressive timings, could get 10bhp, I dunno, im going to ask him again and make him go into more detail as it is confusing me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 University , to be hounest he didnt go into detail, but he never said BIG gains, but he was quite sure about it being possible on cars, superchipping or remappiing, more aggressive timings, could get 10bhp, I dunno, im going to ask him again and make him go into more detail as it is confusing me I wonder what the cost £/BHP would be? You can gain more taking the cats out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 to be hounest he didnt go into detail, There is no detail, he is reading back the ads he has read in the past but he never said BIG gains, There are NO gains, big or small. Some negative ones might creep in though. was quite sure about it being possible on cars, superchipping or remappiing, more aggressive timings, could get 10bhp superchipping and remapping are two different things. Remapping might give you some limited gains here and there, but not worth the hundreds of pounds you'll have to pay for the hardware and the tuning time on the dyno. Let's put it this way, the teacher is not exactly a 'guru' on automotive mechanics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Basic principle here. BIG gains are to be had by changing the map on general road vehicles like say older fords, vauxhalls, citroens etc etc because when they were developed they left the factory in a detuned state. Mass manufacturers built in a safety area after all they don't want thousands upon thousands of cars being returned because they blew up. Cars specifically designed as sports cars usually tend to have a much smaller safety zone built in. They also have a bit more time and money spent developing the map. The N/A supra has left the factory with pretty optimal performance built in. Couple that with the fact that the ECU can learn and tweak the map as it goes and it starts to make getting anything aftermarket to do a better job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSupraNA Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 So for instance if you were to modify the intake, and the entire exhaust system on a NA (both cats etc.), would the stock ecu remap itselfs to the optimum settings for the obvious changes in airflow/fuel from the intake/exhaust changes OR would an air fuel controller properly tuned to take in account the changes give better results?? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 The ecu will adapt to mods like that yes, wether or not more optimal settings is worth the dyno time and hardware costs to setup a piggy back unit or not I don't know. Lets put it this way my last TT had considerable more power than stock but still ran fine with the original ecu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 So for instance if you were to modify the intake, and the entire exhaust system on a NA (both cats etc.), would the stock ecu remap itselfs to the optimum settings for the obvious changes in airflow/fuel from the intake/exhaust changes OR would an air fuel controller properly tuned to take in account the changes give better results?? cheers not sure about OPTIMAL settings, but if its an OBD2 chip, then it will try its best to detune the mods to bring back the AFR to the stock levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 not sure about OPTIMAL settings, but if its an OBD2 chip, then it will try its best to detune the mods to bring back the AFR to the stock levels. Sorry, but that's wrong. The only time the ECU adjusts fueling over it's built in map is when it's in closed loop below 4000rpm (ish). It then tries to keep it at stoich (14.7AFR). Otherwise it has no way of adjusting because it only has a narrowband O2 sensor which is useless for anything other than telling the ECU that it's either leaner or richer than 14.7. However, the stock map may well extend beyond the "normal" airflow that you would see unmodified. In fact, I don't think the NA even has a narrowband sensor to do that closed loop adjustment anyway. At least there's no mention of one in the tech manual. The only real adjustment the ECU makes over it's built in map is timing, which will get retarded if it detects knock (det). However, the stock map is pretty good, so you're not going to improve it much unless you have made some big mods in which case a full remap would give you some benefits, but at big cost as has been said. And, as has also been said, the stock ECU can't be remapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 The n/a has no oxygen sensor? Are you sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi2009 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I m pretty sure it has the oxygen sensor. In fact, if I remember right its got 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSupraNA Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 anyone able to clarify? digsy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I believe it has 2 as well, not sure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 The NA has two O2 sensors, one in each 3-branch manifold. And yes, it does use them to perform closed loop, every car does now The ECU learns a couple more things besides timing as well, it looks after warm idle and cruise trimming. Closed loop sorts out stoich under cruise but a trim map lets it land closer to stoich once it drops into closed loop, thus saving more fuel etc. As an example of that, mine ran rich after some fiddling once, and I could watch it drop to 10:1's with a prod of the throttle, and it took about three seconds for closed loop to drag it back to stoich. Multiply those 3 seconds of running too much fuel by the amount of times you move the accelerator over several journeys and you get a long time running too rich - I saw a good 2 to 3 mpg drop in economy. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSupraNA Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Still a little confused, just want to know, after doing a lot of mods to the NA is it worth getting an AFC and remapping it OR will the stock ecu take care of the modifications??? Anyone, please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 is it worth getting an AFC Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 zip dip nil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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