Guest Ash Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 Apparantly, HKS camshafts are, and I quote, "..... ground to exact specifications from new billets of high nickel iron alloy and equal or exceed the OE units they are designed to replace in terms of quality and workmanship." Strange that, because they definitely look like they are chill-cast to me. Unless, of course, HKS have invented a new lathe that can apply neat little casting marks along the cam which they then have to grind off. A cam made of solid billet is literally machined from a solid bar of metal (EN40B normally) and then the cam is subjected to a hardening process. With chill-casting, molten metal is poured into a camshaft-shaped mould. What happens is, the cam-lobe moulds are held at a low temperature; so that as the molten metal fills the mould in the area of the lobes, it cools rapidly. This has the effect of hardening the steel on its outer surface. Then the cam lobes and bearing surfaces are finished off by grinding them to the required surface finish. Billet cams are superior in strength and are used typically in engines that reach very high RPM's. Chill-cast cams are perfectly okay for fast road use in engines that rev to a relatively lower RPM. So it's not the actual camshaft I have a beef about in this case, it's the description applied to them. Yours, J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 So Ash, if the HKS ones aren't what you thought does that mean there are better places to get them? Or really is it a case that you'll never see the kind of RPM in a supra that would require the superior type? Maybe you should just add some trade descriptions sections to your court action re the price fixing I've been browsing the Fast Car guide and there seems to be rather alot of cam companies, is it a case you'd ask one of these to make you a custom set or something? There's been some pretty good things said about the HKS cams on the big list and i'm pretty sure it's on of my earlier upgrades for my new car (if they haven't always been done). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 JUN and Trust make Cams does anyone know if they are any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 As I stated at the end of the original post, the cams *do* perform nicely. It's the description applied to them. Yours, J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 I guess as no one else has complained I'm not a special case so they'll be fine for me too!!! On a side note how the hell would I go about getting a Supra to rev safely to 8,500rpm??? Which parts would I need to change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 Alex.......... No-one else will have complained because most people who would have read the quote that I gave from a (so called) leading tuner: would not know the difference between a chill-cast cam and a machined-billet cam to save their life. However, the two manufacturing processes are *radically* different. The fact is, the company in question is selling the cams under a false pretence. They may well rely on the defence that they were only relaying what they were told by HKS. Fine, in that event HKS are the ones fulminating the false pretence. Either way the statements regarding the cams are false. That doesn't mean to say they are sh&te cams... in fact, they work *very* well. As for increasing RPM you need to consider that inertial loads rise with the *square* of rpm. Therefore, gaining any *significant* power through increasing rpm needs trick engine internals (read, big money). Yours, J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 Just had a word with Norris designs and they say that the JUN cams are all 9.3mm lift and that the HKS cams are staggerd 8.7 (256) 9.0 (264) 9.3 (272) So would the Jun Cams be "better"(?) as they are more aggressive or would you believe that they would cause more problems at lower revs? (I've been quoted for the springs as well as I realise they'll take more of a pounding with higher lift cams) £711 for the Cams INC vat, is that a good deal? Your advice would be gratefully received!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 I think, & I am sure James will correct me if I am wrong, that the equivalent to a 272 cam is too much for a stock Supra valve gear, & would need uprated springs. These can be bought but the cost is horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 Yep, once you start playing around too much other things start coming into play. But having said that, HKS reckon their 3 cam specs *are* suited to stock lifters and springs. Alex, correct on the HKS lift specs. Whether the motor would idle is another matter. That's something you need to go into with the people you are considering buying the cams from. Lift is one thing, but it is the *duration* of the cams that is also an important issue. Do Jun have any data on the duration? Yours, J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Sorry it doesn't look like I made myself very clear last time....so what's new. JUN make 256, 264 & 272 degree cams but ALL of their cams lift by 9.3mm unlike the staggerd arrangemnet from HKS. (The degree of the cam is its duration isn't it? http://www.junauto.co.jp/products/cylinderhead-part/camshaft/high-camshaft-toyota.html?en#2JZ this is the web page they are listed on.) The guy I spoke to said that the springs would need to be replaced if I go above 1.2bar - that's something I'll know about after I decat the exhaust later this month. That's why I got the additional quote for the springs, I'll have to check the valve guides when I change the cams and then decide if they need replacing too. A chap on the other list said that when he installed the HKS 256i and 264e cams he noticed that idle became slightly un-even. I think I can live with that as long as it doesn't stall!! Might have to alter the idle speed to combat this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Alex, the car will definately go above 1.2 bar without cats. With a boost controller I can hold mine down to 1.05 but what's the point. I noticed on Crowers web site they now do 15% uprated springs for the JZA80, & nothing like the cost of PHR's 50% uprated springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Forgot to mention that I'll be getting a 256i and 264e as my choice of cams hence my interest in the higher lift. I don't know the specific % of how much uprated the springs are from JUN. They're £280 INC vat is that comparable to Crowers? I'm not so sure it will go above 1.2bar as they are Justin's old decat pipes which I'm having and he said they would be fine. I'm only running .85 absolute max right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Trust me, it will go above 1.2 without a boost controller if both cats are removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 I wouldn't bother replacing springs. Cannot see the point unless your're going to increase maximum RPM. Never fitted the JUN cams so I cannot really say anything about them. Though I wouldn't recommend 264 exhaust with the stock setup. 256 duration is the max I would go, intake & exhaust, without having the facility to tune fuelling and ignition maps to suit. People have fitted 272 cams to high-performance 2JZ motors, i.e. ones with bigger turbos, proper fuel and ignition mapping etc., and have managed to tune for a smooth idle, with the odd burble, even with circa 800cc injectors. Doubt you could do that with a stocker though. Plus, with the stock setup, 1 bar is the maximum boost I would recommend. People boost higher than this, but provided it's not my engine.......... Yours, J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 There is about £30 in it between the jun 9.3mm lift cams and the HKS 8.7mm cams, the JUN ones being the more expensive. It's worth a gamble me thinks?? Does anybody else want some new cams as my order will have to be shipped here.....we could split the carriage costs....long shot but worth a go me thinks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 hi you guys know your stuff i am new to tuning just fitted a decat pipe to my blitz nur spec cat back system along with blitz induction kit and dump valve it seems to idle very low on revs is that a problem just seems low to me i thought most cars idle at 1000 rpm i want to learn more i also read somewhere you can get some electronics that steady your idle speeds anyone know of what it is? also read that fitting cams can cause car to run lumpy can you tell the difference when u have fitted new cams and whats the advantage over standard cams i have been told i may need a (FCD) now i have took main center cat off also if you have removed both cats you get creeping boost is there a way to control it with say a boost controller or hks external wastegate or is the waste gate for large single turbos thanks for any help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Mark, You will probably get lumpy idle after changing your cams if you use any cam other than a pair or 256deg HKS or JUN cams. I don't know anything about idle steadying electronics but my car will idle anywhere between 600 and 1000rpm at idle.... as long as it doesn't stall it should be fine! Using a boost controller you can get some degree of controll over boost creep but its not what they are designed for so if it works great but don't expect miricles. If you get boost beyond 1bar (14.5psi ish) you will hit Fuel Cut if you haven't got an FCD already... have you got a boost gauge? On a J-spec Supra you can get boost creep it depends on which pipes to de-cat it as to how much this happens. If you do get boost creep with both cats removed its best to re-fit the second one as its less restrictive than the first and its easier to get at, at a later date! If your determined to take out both cats but suffer from boost creep you'll need to update all your mechanicals inc. your turbo's to cope!! If I was you I'd have a look through the other pages and see if any issues we've covered relate to your situation... there have been alot of dicussions about de-catting in the past.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughie Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Monkeymark The mkiv does idle low. It is normal. My manual UK-spec mkiv idles (from memory) about 6 - 700rpm. (This is with the air-con OFF.) With the air-con on, the idle rises to over 1000rpm when the air-con cuts in, and then lowers again when the air-con cuts out. Unless your idle is less than 600-700rpm, i wouldn't think it's a problem and i wouldn't worry unduly about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Mark, the car will idle low. Dependant on what octane rating you use, as low as 500 RPM The HKS or Jun Cams will make the idle lumpy. I have a 256 in & 264 ex & the idle is slightly lumpy. You can control boost creep with a good electronic boost controller. So far the Blitz DSBC seem capable of holding a decatted car to just above 1 kg/cm2 & you can set an overboost limit on this contoller. You need to keep the pipework to the solenoids as short as possible. I have a Apex AVCR I am going to try. With both CATS removed, your EGT's will be lower & the turbos will spool up quicker. Both of which are good things. If anyone is intersted I will be selling my Blitz DSBC shortly. Contact me on [email protected] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 hi guys the mods i have done so far are BLITZ nur spec cat back exhaust BLITZ induction kit BLITZ super sound dump valve BLITZ cat replacement pipe from bottom of downpipe to the catback exhaust (MAIN cat i think) was a heavy the cat i took off i have no boost controller or boost clock so far i was wanting to get the new BLITZ boost controller SBC-iD Boost control £500 15055 Power Meter iD £200 15056 do i also need a boost clock along with the above 2 BLITZ goodies is the supra run at 11-12psi as standard or is it 10psi if you can take the boost up to 14psi before the boost cut controller kicks in and what will the performance be like at 14 psi just very curious and wonder how much differance it will make i want to get into doing a bit of drag racing what times do you think you could pull over 1/4 best i did was just over 14 sec now i have my de cat pipe and it seems loads faster and the revs move up so fast i want to learn more also want to change the rubber pipe that goes into the throttle body is that the air cooling system i know you can get hks hard pipe kit but at £375 exc vat is a bit expensive for 2 pipes anyone had a pipe made up got quoted £30 for a stainless steel pipe could get it chromed up thanks for your time supra makes me smile everytime i drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Mark make a new thread. You've strayed from the point of this one. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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