Racing a supra

[Guest TonyC]

Afternoon all, I'm here to gauge interest really. I'm thinking about building a new race car and I've got a hankering to use a Supra. It's RWD, has decent power and I like the look of them!

 

I'm talking about proper UK Circuit racing, rather than other motorsport such as drag racing or drifting. As far as I can tell (so far) there doesn't seem to be anyone doing this with the Supra.

 

What I'm interested in finding out, is the interest this may generate from the Supra community. If there is plentry of interest then that improves my chances of gaining sponsorship from companies linked to the Supra.

 

Is anyone aware of anyone currently circuit racing a Supra?

Are there any companies I'd be wise to speak to who may have had some experience or may be interested in offering support?

 

This won't be the first race car I've built and I have a friend who has built some pretty decent Supra engines and competed at TOTB - in fact he kind of got me thinking about this!

I've competed for a number of years in motorsport and I'm a professional motorsport instructor - so I know what I'm doing on the track.

 

Just chuck in thoughts, comments, etc - I really want to know what the Supra community thinks to this idea, and if anyone has already had a go.

 

Cheers all

 

Tony

[Ian W]

i believe Bijal at Future Motorsports (or FM Racing is his username) has or is in the progress of building a supra track car.

[Cable]

Sounds like a damn good idea to me. Would love to do summat like that myself if I had the money (and driving skills ). If I knew one of these was out and about on a race track somewhere I think I'd be more inclined to go.

 

What category/events would you/it be in?

[grahamc]

I believe that there was supposed to be one in the British GT Car Championship, but so far it seems to be all hype, as I dont believe the car has ever raced. There is a thread about this car somewhere.

 

Found it:

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=72375

[MrAngry]

Info here

 

That's the one.

[Alex]

Are you thinking of any particular class?

 

It's a heavy car, so brakes and tyres will take a pounding. But lots of weight can be removed too...weight distribution is 53:47 on the TT so you'll want to work on making that 50:50 for the track.

[AJI]

TonyC - are you going to be racing it also ?

[Ian C]

I think it's a brilliant idea Tony

 

I'd love to see a Supra race in a proper race series, and there is enough knowledge on here of what's needed and what works, although long term durability under racing conditions is going to be a bit different to what most people on here go for.

 

Engine longevity is going to be all about cooling and fuel supply, and we've got some experience around both of those, including the importance of ducting. I'm assuming you won't need bonkers power but more like strong power and high reliability. There are a few of us on here who do some reasonable testing of things and there is a history of what products/parts work and what doesn't. You've also got Chris Wilson who builds suspension setups for a living in the world of motorsport, so he's a useful chap to get to know ooh, brakes too, there are some good choices and I know a couple of people who do a lot of track day stuff that would be worthwhile asking about stuff...

 

What race series can you blag a Supra into then?

 

-Ian

[Guest TonyC]

Thanks fellas, yes I have a class and championship in mind. The regs are pretty free in what I can do - although I have no intention of running with a laggy, over tuned engine.

There is plenty of opportunity to drop weight from the car based upon these regs.

 

Yes I will be driving it also - I like lots of work! Nothing I've not done before. Prepare and race.

[Ian C]

Does the series have a power limit via a restrictor or something?

 

One guy here had a lot of success with a well set up mid sized dual ball bearing turbo, by about 3000rpm it was at full boost and brought home over 500bhp. That sounds ideal for racework

 

-Ian

[Guest TonyC]

Typical UK Club racers - which this will be racing in initially,( although I'm interested in taking it forward to something like Britcars if the car is suitable and budgets increase) are only around the 20 minute mark. So the problems of cooling, etc that some of the guys trying to go straigth into British GT's become less of an issue.

 

Brakes I will look into after trialing the standard brakes - may sounds odd but often standard callipers and disks (with the right pads) and entirely suitable for racing - a lot of brake longevity and ability depends upon selecting the correct pad (and I have a favoured supplier that have been very good in the past) and driver technique.

Although giant AP 6 pots look cool, the cost vs benefits has to be considered and I'll find that out when I get an initial build of a car done and out on track. Weight kills brakes and I plan to remove as much as could be done

 

That's all depending on if I decide to take on this project - although I'm feeling enthusiastic!

[Alex]

Indeed the stock UK brakes are powerful (at launch only the Ferarri F40's brembo's were "better"). Proper cooling and pad choice will reap the benefits.

 

As you're going to be on boost all the way round a track DBB isn't such an issue...A T61 will produce a nice wide powerband...though if you go for a raise rev limit you're going to want the larger exhaust A/R to make use of it.

[Thorin]

Brakes I will look into after trialing the standard brakes - may sounds odd but often standard callipers and disks (with the right pads) and entirely suitable for racing - a lot of brake longevity and ability depends upon selecting the correct pad (and I have a favoured supplier that have been very good in the past) and driver technique.

Although giant AP 6 pots look cool, the cost vs benefits has to be considered and I'll find that out when I get an initial build of a car done and out on track. Weight kills brakes and I plan to remove as much as could be done

 

Good post, and I've said so all along, the stock larger UK spec brakes are excellent and there's no real need to fit anything larger IMO. Plus the stock discs are cheap enough to consider disposable unlike some fancy dustbin lid sized drilled and grooved ones. Get some good race pads on, some Motul fluid, and some braided lines too if you like.

[Gerry]

Do it - do it - do it...

 

I'm certain that if anybody did get a Supe on the race track, the support (from the members - can't talk for the sponsors) would be brilliant.

 

There seems enough ultra knowledgable members on here to brain pick, and I'm sure everybody who could help, would.

 

Chris Wilson, as said above, would seem to be a good place to start with as he knows both race engines, race set-ups as well as Supra's, although he's a busy bloke.

 

All the best...

G

[Alex]

Good post, and I've said so all along, the stock larger UK spec brakes are excellent and there's no real need to fit anything larger IMO. Plus the stock discs are cheap enough to consider disposable unlike some fancy dustbin lid sized drilled and grooved ones. Get some good race pads on, some Motul fluid, and some braided lines too if you like.

 

The one thing the UK spec'ers are though is that they are heavy...even using a floating disc on an Ali bell would help lower the unsprung masses. That was actually what I was thinking about in my first post...Brembo's Stoptech's, AP's etc usually are lighter and work just as well.

[Thorin]

The one thing the UK spec'ers are though is that they are heavy...even using a floating disc on an Ali bell would help lower the unsprung masses. That was actually what I was thinking about in my first post...Brembo's Stoptech's, AP's etc usually are lighter and work just as well.

 

Yeah true, but it's all down to cost vs. benefit again, and replacement disc costs start adding up let alone the initial cost.

 

Plus he's going to be removing a lot of the weight anyway and I would have thought it would likely be a jap car to start off with.

 

Junking the aircon and moving the battery into the boot would do a lot to improve the weight distribution too I would have thought

[Ian C]

Well it all depends on budget as well. Sorting the suspension out is a grand or so, wheels, tyres, and essential racing mods for scrutineering (seats, fire extinguishers, rollcage et al) all cost a lot as well.

 

I like the idea of caning it around a track and seeing where the weak points are *before* spunking cash on shiny things that may or may not be necessary

 

Lowering the weight of the car may well help, I found my UK specs with the CW fast road pads on, Motul RBF fluid and braided hoses still had loooooong pedal travel after 4 laps on an airfield track.

 

-Ian

[Guest TonyC]

Yep, braided lines are a must as well as decent fluid.

Brakes always catch people out, I proberly spend more time trying to get drivers to use the brakes properly on a track than anything else.

 

Well there seems some enthusiasm and interest already - Where would be the best place to source a cheap car.

 

It's a bit different to buying one for the road,

Obviously it needs to be a twin turbo, with a manual box.

It also needs to be minus any dodgy body kits.

 

But it doesn't need:

To be a UK car

an MOT or even registered

The interior can be mullered as it will be pulled out.

The body work can be scrufy as some parts will be replaced with lighter items, and I'll refresh the paint work anyway once I've got it down to a shell.

It doesn't need service history

In fact the engine will be checked over/rfreshed and modified anyway so It migth not even have to be a decent runner.

[Guest TonyC]

Unsprung weight and so on I can worry about later depending on how the car feels on track after I've done the initial suspension work. It's all in the feel.

 

The pads I haev in mind can't be considered fast road pads, in fact I'd call them 'don't use them one the road' pads. They are a carbon metalic compound and very good and stable once warm - but they don't work until they get to at least 300-400c. Althoguh I may go up a pad to those with an even hotter temp range - depends on power, weight and cornering speed!

 

Go around corners faster - brakes get used less!

[Alex]

Obviously it needs to be a twin turbo, with a manual box.

 

Ian will PM you about 1 we know of

[colsoop]

Sounds like a cool idea, i would love to see someone do this. Chris Wilson used to do track days in his Supra im sure he could offer some input in this area if needed.

 

My car may be up for sale soon , it meets all the criteria you are looking for, if you are interested.

 

good luck with it and i hope you stick around and update us with the project, we like photos

[Bobbeh]

I'm talking about proper UK Circuit racing, rather than other motorsport such as drag racing or drifting. As far as I can tell (so far) there doesn't seem to be anyone doing this with the Supra.

 

 

There are a few people on here who track their cars but not many who really do it seriously if thats what you indend doing.

 

Good luck with it all if you chose to go down that route.

[Gazboy]

Chris Wilson has knowledge of brake pads, it's worth searching for.

 

I'd imagine some good light calipers & wheels would help with unsprung weight control. BBS & OZ appear quite light and fit over the UK spec brakes.

[Chris Wilson]

It'll need better brakes, for sure, but you can probably get a lot of weight out of one as the electrickery is extensive and heavy. It'll still be a heavy understeery beast, so if the regs let you shift weight backards I'd try and do just that. Camber control is not good when lowere, not good at all, so unless you want to get into moving inboard pick up points around I'd suggest you keep it nearish to stock ride height. It'll also need a decent LSD the viscous option from Toyota is hopeless for track usage. A lot of the wishbone bushes are actaully uniballs in a rubber sleeve, so wheel control is exceptionally good. Dearest stuff will be a decent weld in cage, decent rims and tyres and of course the clutch, and drivetrain mods. The only other problem I foresee is keeping everything cool, the rad aperture is tiny and relies on the stock ducting to work at all. If you sacrifice the ducting for a front mount I/C in front of the ater rad you will have to have a very efficient water rad and put back some proper ducting, which will be very tricky. I'd look at air to water I/C with the heat exchangers split between the 2 side inatke ducts in the stock bumper. In the wet it may need a diff cooler. It'll need t leat a 35 row engine oil cooler, quite where you can fit that in will be challenging Let us know how you get on!

 

Where do you instruct? Do you know Malcolm Hamilton or Howard Hunt? I used to race karts, Special Saloons, Special GT's, ARP F3 and now have 2 Zeus Supersports cars, and a track day Skyline, in RWD form, that's almost ready to go again after I introduced it to the barriers at Oulton in the summmer.

[Gazboy]

It'll still be a heavy understeery beast.

 

I had my geometery changed to reduce the understeer by G-Force/DSA, I'll Email Dave Stone and ask if he has the settings, otherwise 'll egt him to record them when the car goes for a MOT at the end of the month.