Jack Straw - Sensible Move?

[Gordon F]

havent they passed the anti terrorism law? dont you agree that this law is so damn vague, that you can be captured and imprisoned for a mere whim....dont you think thats wrong?

Nope. Check out internment in Northern Ireland in the early 1970's. They didn't even require a whim. Why should it be different now?

with that in mind, dont you agree that atleast with this law they have the power to certainly stop trouble makers like hamza and his cronies?

It just doesn't go far enough. They should be able to remove these people from the country as a threat to national security.

[Nick]

..not forgetting that there are several flavours of Christians, results of schisms and internal wars, all because of minute and trivial interpretations of the Holy Books (themselves re-written, re-translated and re-interpreted numerous times through the ages)

Didn't the Protestands tear away from the Catholics, who tore away from the Orthodox Christians? Heretics, the lot of them!

 

In the meantime, nobody wants to admit (God forbid!) that religion is used as a front to give legitimacy to violent redistributions of wealth.

 

Exactly. All too often I see religion used as a tool of manipulation for those in power, and as nothing more than a crutch for the weak.

 

Believe in what you want, but don't tell me what I should believe.

 

I read a post on another forum a few days ago, he said something like "A martyr says I die for what I believe in, where as a Muslim martyr say you should also die for what I believe in."

 

What worries me is the new legislation that the government are bringing in under the disguise of "the prevention of terrorism".

[Cable]

That is why I wouldnt want to be in that situation. I feel sorry for those that are put in those situations and condone their position to protest.

QUOTE]

 

Nope, you shouldn't join any of these types of jobs if there is a chance that your personal beliefs can get in the way of doing it.

 

I'm over reacting? What about the whole hoo haa about that Dutch cartoon sketch, or Jack Straw on the veil issue or...

[tbourner]

I think you are over-reacting.....If you think the UK is bad, have you been to the US????

 

I couldn't give a shit about how bad the US is, that's their problem, I'm concerned about losing my own heritage.

 

It won't happen, the vigilante groups are already massing, the core Britons are still strong underneath the mess and as you can see from my previous post:

More views:

http://boards.live.com/UKNewsboards/thread.aspx?ThreadID=102885

It's mostly only the Muslims that disagreed with Mr Straw's views - funny that.

[imi]

I couldn't give a shit about how bad the US is, that's their problem, I'm concerned about losing my own heritage.

 

You should, cause we follow the US, give it a few more years and all this PC crap will get far worse.

 

It's mostly only the Muslims that disagreed with Mr Straw's views - funny that.

 

cause it effects those very FEW Muslims. DUH

[martin_a]

youve just proved my point smarty pants..... This guy and his companions dont represent the muslims in britain. Not sure why its so hard for a spindoctor like you to understand that - oh, I think i've just answered my question.

 

We recently had a pakistan women's day in the town where i live. The aim of the day (which my girlfriend volunteered to help out at) was to show Pakistani and muslim women the ways the council could help them find work by learning english, computer courses and things.

 

Outside in the car park two peace loving muslims were arrested for shouting abuse that it was against Islam and inside the local immam refused to let any of the women present speak, instead, in the spirit of community relations he stood up and ranted for 10 minutes in Urdu.

 

The only thing i don't understand is how you can ignore the evidence across the world, as highlighted in Thorin's article of how intolerant, racist, sexist and bigoted Islam is. Sorry you might claim it is a minority being focused on but the evidence from across the globe says otherwise.

 

 

Police didnt stop when they shot the innocent brazillian down, or the two innocent brothers in east london.....

 

They pick and choose when to be agressive...now dont they.

 

Bloke deserved it. Sorry but he did. As an illegal immigrant he shouldn't have been here anyway and running onto a packed tube train with armed officers asking him to stop at that point in time? He was killed by his own stupidity. If he had been a bomber and they hadn't shot him we'd have been asking why not. Good work police people who will have to live with the knowledge they killed the guy forever.

 

As to 300 people woohoo....big deal.

 

You are comical indeed

 

So... 300 Nazis have a rally in your street each week, indeed each day and you'd be ok with that? Bit of a special argument that one.

 

havent they passed the anti terrorism law? dont you agree that this law is so damn vague, that you can be captured and imprisoned for a mere whim....dont you think thats wrong?

 

See earlier post on Northern Ireland. Anyone who is a threat should be detained. Its like complaining stop and search is racist, it isn't. Yes the police stop more black/african men but unfortunately the facts are that most muggings are commited by these people so they get stopped as likely suspects not because the police are going for them. If it was Chinese people doing the crimes they'd be the ones getting pulled.

 

with that in mind, dont you agree that atleast with this law they have the power to certainly stop trouble makers like hamza and his cronies?

 

I refer you again to this quote:

 

"Following the speech, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said it was "extraordinarily difficult" to clamp down on Islamic extremism without offending large groups of Muslims."

 

This country has a policy of free speech and allows you to criticise the government. Hamza and his fans get away with it because they are safe undercover of free speech provided by the western society they claim to hate.

 

Unless you are suggesting that freedom of speech in this country is suspended there is little the police can do. Would you really like to see one of our basic rights taken away?

 

Hamza et al are a problem within the "muslim community" (why we can't just be a "human community" i don't know) and it is the muslims that need to deal with it. If they are in the minority why hasn't the Muslim Council of Britain been able to stamp it out?

 

 

m.

[Nick]

Good post Martin.

[imi]

We recently had a pakistan women's day in the town where i live. The aim of the day (which my girlfriend volunteered to help out at) was to show Pakistani and muslim women the ways the council could help them find work by learning english, computer courses and things.

 

Sounds like a good initiative.

 

Outside in the car park two peace loving muslims were arrested for shouting abuse that it was against Islam and inside the local immam refused to let any of the women present speak, instead, in the spirit of community relations he stood up and ranted for 10 minutes in Urdu.

 

So how were they peace loving? What was against Islam, I missed that too, cause if you do study history which I am sure you are capable of doing, you will realise that Islam as a religion was the 1st religion that actually gave rights to women, but then again, that is a fact that you chose not to focus on, obviously you are not alone as some of the uneducated and ignorant muslims also chose to turn a blind eye to this = POLITICAL AGENDA which is nothing new and doesnt surprise me one bit.

 

The only thing i don't understand is how you can ignore the evidence across the world, as highlighted in Thorin's article of how intolerant, racist, sexist and bigoted Islam is. Sorry you might claim it is a minority being focused on but the evidence from across the globe says otherwise.

 

That is a fairly ignorant comment coming from someone that has either studied Islam as a religion and has some vandetta against it OR someone who is truely ignorant. Not sure what category you fall into.

 

The common misconception is that Islam is agains the west, this for you my friend is sadly not true. We dont see any issues in Scandanavian countries, the netherlands, germany and other western european countries. We certainly see no issues in Austrialia either. So Islam has not objective to DESTROY the west. If you were to open you minds and think about it with some common sense and re-read John's post again, you will appreciate that some circles will use RELIGION (be is Islam or any other) as a means for their own political agenda.

 

People might lead you to believe otherwise, but as educated people I would urge you to not be ignorant and raise above it. If you have already formed your tunnel vision views then like now, I will spend some of my time helping to put my point forward in the light of facts and help you diffrentiate between what ISLAM is and what some muslims practise, if I fail to do so, then that would be my failing. In any case - good luck to you.

 

Bloke deserved it. Sorry but he did. As an illegal immigrant he shouldn't have been here anyway and running onto a packed tube train with armed officers asking him to stop at that point in time? He was killed by his own stupidity. If he had been a bomber and they hadn't shot him we'd have been asking why not. Good work police people who will have to live with the knowledge they killed the guy forever.

 

Thats a pretty inhumane thing to say and a fairly irresponsible & laid back attitude. The Brits / Yanks and more than happy to invade other countries, destroy others livelihoods, infrastructure, education, history, way of living, impose their own rules on them or try to with destructive consequences....then when shit hits the fan on Your doorstep you pretend to take this high moral objective over things and blame the victims again.....sorry but you cant have it both ways....it doesnt work like that.

 

You kill innocent people and you suffer the consequences, what goes round comes round, that is what history teaches us time and time again. The sooner we learn our lesson and behave like the model civilised citizens that we should be the sooner other cultures / people from different countries will learn to respect us.

 

So... 300 Nazis have a rally in your street each week, indeed each day and you'd be ok with that? Bit of a special argument that one.

 

 

 

See earlier post on Northern Ireland. Anyone who is a threat should be detained. Its like complaining stop and search is racist, it isn't. Yes the police stop more black/african men but unfortunately the facts are that most muggings are commited by these people so they get stopped as likely suspects not because the police are going for them. If it was Chinese people doing the crimes they'd be the ones getting pulled.

 

agree with that. I get stopped often, and I have no problem if I am treated with respect and professionally.

 

 

I refer you again to this quote:

 

"Following the speech, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said it was "extraordinarily difficult" to clamp down on Islamic extremism without offending large groups of Muslims."

 

This country has a policy of free speech and allows you to criticise the government. Hamza and his fans get away with it because they are safe undercover of free speech provided by the western society they claim to hate.

 

Unless you are suggesting that freedom of speech in this country is suspended there is little the police can do. Would you really like to see one of our basic rights taken away?

 

Hamza et al are a problem within the "muslim community" (why we can't just be a "human community" i don't know) and it is the muslims that need to deal with it. If they are in the minority why hasn't the Muslim Council of Britain been able to stamp it out?

 

 

m.

 

Nice one, FREEDOM OF SPEECH - use that as an excuse when it suits you. When you want to justify why humza was left off the collar for a long time, then you back the freedom of speech argument. How come he was sent back to yemen then????

 

IF there are people that delieberately insite racism or religious hatred or terrorism or something like that, they freedom of speech doesnt come into it. they then become criminals and its the police's responsibility to flush them out. Look what happened to the two INNOCENT brothers in east london that were shot at....why did that happen???

 

What about those 25 that were arrested.....??

 

I think you will find that the police have more than enough powers to do whatever it is that they want to do when they want to do it. To say that they give a toss about the muslim community is a bit pathetic.

 

After all, you are voicing your opinion and I havent kicked your arse now have I despite you making some very generalised statements that are completely unfounded and unjustified.......

[Class One]

Those soap boxes must be taking a battering.

[martin_a]

Sounds like a good initiative.

 

It is. Why wouldn't the Imams support it?

 

So how were they peace loving? What was against Islam, I missed that too

 

The peace loving bit was me being a pain - Islam is a religion of peace and all that yet these guys were so worked up that British taxpayers were spending money to help educate and integrate their women into their communities that they had to be arrested. Why educating women would be against Islam i don't know.

 

cause if you do study history which I am sure you are capable of doing, you will realise that Islam as a religion was the 1st religion that actually gave rights to women, but then again, that is a fact that you chose not to focus on, obviously you are not alone as some of the uneducated and ignorant muslims also chose to turn a blind eye to this = POLITICAL AGENDA which is nothing new and doesnt surprise me one bit.

 

This is true. For centurys Middle Eastern countries were a beacon of learning and enlightmentment. However, the world caught up and moved on where Islam appears to have stood still. Regimes that hold Sharia law immediately cut off half their gifted population by not inculding women in education of good jobs.

 

I'm not sure the few argument stands up either. I'd say Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia to a certain extent (non of which have free press) are not entirely made up of a few uneducated people.

 

That is a fairly ignorant comment coming from someone that has either studied Islam as a religion and has some vandetta against it OR someone who is truely ignorant. Not sure what category you fall into.

 

I'd hope you could tell that i am not against Islam at all but i am simply commenting on the facts as the world presents them. Many Islamic countries, despite their outcrys at the corrupt west and the US are themselves rotten to the very core. It smacks of hypocrisy and explains why so many look to emigrate from these countries. Trouble is they don't always leave their religious baggage behind with them. Arranged marriages and so called honour killings have no place in the UK

 

The common misconception is that Islam is agains the west, this for you my friend is sadly not true. We dont see any issues in Scandanavian countries,

 

Danish cartoons?

 

Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

From the desk of Paul Belien on Sat, 2005-10-22 20:25

 

Islam is no laughing matter. The Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten is being protected by security guards and several cartoonists have gone into hiding after the newspaper published a series of twelve cartoons (see them all here, halfway the article) about the prophet Muhammad. According to the Islam it is blasphemous to make images of the prophet. Muslim fundamentalists have threatened to bomb the paper’s offices and kill the cartoonists.

 

the netherlands,

 

From the BBC:

Police said four people were detained in Amsterdam and one in Amersfoort as part of the same investigation into a network of radical Muslims.

 

Tensions have been high since filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who made a film critical of Islam, was shot dead in the street in a week ago.

 

germany and other western european countries. We certainly see no issues in Austrialia either.

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The 2002 Bali bombing occurred on October 12, 2002 in the resort town of Kuta on the Indonesian island of Bali, where it killed 202 people and injured a further 209. It was the deadliest act of terrorism in Indonesian history. The majority of the dead were foreign tourists, especially Australians, although nearly one-fifth were Indonesian nationals.

 

 

So Islam has not objective to DESTROY the west. If you were to open you minds and think about it with some common sense and re-read John's post again, you will appreciate that some circles will use RELIGION (be is Islam or any other) as a means for their own political agenda.

 

Again i agree. Religion, whatever it may be has been used badly by a lot of so called supporters. Even now there is sectarian violence in Scotland not to mention Ireland with the Catholics and Protestants. As i said i'm not against Islam but you don't seem to accept the weight of evidence that Islam needs to modernise.

 

The Brits / Yanks and more than happy to invade other countries, destroy others livelihoods, infrastructure, education, history, way of living, impose their own rules on them or try to with destructive consequences....You kill innocent people and you suffer the consequences...The sooner we learn our lesson and behave like the model civilised citizens that we should be the sooner other cultures / people from different countries will learn to respect us.

 

Not saying otherwise but i think you'll find the attacks in Iraq are Sunni versus Shia. The US and UK are not killing anyone. The entire country has a great chance to use US cash to rebuild after the removal of a man who kept power through fear. Instead of seizing the opportunity these muslim 'brothers' are busy blowing each other up.

 

Nice one, FREEDOM OF SPEECH - use that as an excuse when it suits you. When you want to justify why humza was left off the collar for a long time, then you back the freedom of speech argument. How come he was sent back to yemen then????

 

took years to get evidence on him. and yes, freedom of speech. Yuo scoff at that like it is a little thing but again as a basic right we have it along with the right to silence and the right to a fair trial. I don't see places like Iran and Saudi offering the same basic rights to their citizens.

 

IF there are people that delieberately insite racism or religious hatred or terrorism or something like that, they freedom of speech doesnt come into it. they then become criminals and its the police's responsibility to flush them out.

 

No that's censorship by the state. Under your rule anyone could be thrown in jail. You could say "hello" to a copper and he could arrest you for religious hatred if he wanted to. Evidence would be hearsay. Freedom of Speech is a vital part of our society and even if it protects scum like Hamza it has to be defended.

 

Look what happened to the two INNOCENT brothers in east london that were shot at....why did that happen???

 

Tragic accident but these things will occasionally happen. Again these things need to be investigated but in this case the police were just too twitchy.

 

What about those 25 that were arrested.....??

 

Investigated and let go. Fair do's i'd have thought. THinking before shooting. Good work Police chaps. Same as they would/did when someone was supposed to be kidnapping baby Beckham. No one complained that was done on religous grounds.

 

To say that they give a toss about the muslim community is a bit pathetic.

 

Actively recruiting and favouring muslim coppers? Really racist and why do they need to do that? The "muslim community" is why. I'm not just talking about muslims here, i have the same thoughts on any special interest group be a part of the British community not your own. Join in, learn the language and accept that's how things are done here. Do not complain it isn't run along the same lines of the crappy country you ran away from!

 

m.

[MaveriK]

I am sure those signs "The west will pay" etc were a one off then?

 

Whats the name of that little muslim bitch whos name i forget that they keep wheeling out every time something happens. She keeps on that its not their fault, the muslims have been forced/pressed into it, its a minority, we have rights bollocks.

 

What of the rights of the people who were injured/killed in the war on the west, what of the rights of the police who put their lives on the line for our/my country.

 

That female angered me so much i had to turn the channel over,i toyed with idea of making a flag and burning it or standing outside somewhere and chanting hate towards her and her family but i thought it would be childish and pathetic to do so.

[imi]

I am sure those signs "The west will pay" etc were a one off then?

 

Whats the name of that little muslim bitch whos name i forget that they keep wheeling out every time something happens. She keeps on that its not their fault, the muslims have been forced/pressed into it, its a minority, we have rights bollocks.

 

What of the rights of the people who were injured/killed in the war on the west, what of the rights of the police who put their lives on the line for our/my country.

 

That female angered me so much i had to turn the channel over,i toyed with idea of making a flag and burning it or standing outside somewhere and chanting hate towards her and her family but i thought it would be childish and pathetic to do so.

 

I havent seen this "bitch" in question as I dont tend to watch news that insights hatred like is evident here. I can see why she is getting a lot of attention and it seems to be working.

 

All I will say is WAKE UP......if you are set in your merry ways and dont want to recognise what is really going on, then good luck to you.

 

And yes, it is OUR country. I wont bore you with justifying why it is my country too cause I dont need to and certainly am not answerable to you or anyone else.....but I certainly have more right over Britain that some asshole that doesnt bloody work, sat at home claiming benefits, living in a freebie house and is a burden on society despite being capable of working (they are wasting my hard earned cash)

 

BTW: I wasn't referring to you. There are many that are simply parasites and that isnt limited to whites, black, or asians, it goes for whoever is applies to...and there are many.

[TRD3000GT]

When I read this all I could do was shake my head...

 

In all honesty who cares. Life is too short and if you take offence from things like this you need to get a life

[imi]

It is. Why wouldn't the Imams support it?

 

did ALL the imams support it? do you think that the muslims in britain have a single voice? do you believe that the muslims in the world have a single voice?

 

 

Why educating women would be against Islam i don't know.

It isnt, Islam promotes education for ALL. I dont know where you and they are getting their facts from.

 

65% of the students in IRANIAN universities are women.

 

 

This is true. For centurys Middle Eastern countries were a beacon of learning and enlightmentment. However, the world caught up and moved on where Islam appears to have stood still. Regimes that hold Sharia law immediately cut off half their gifted population by not inculding women in education of good jobs.

 

to say that Islam stands still is pretty ignorant. Muslims find themselves in this situation for the past 80-100 years. During the 700 year reign of the Ottomans (recent hitory) Islamic culture, archiictecture, astronomy, science, maths, poetry, cuisine was thriving.....

 

Nowhere in Sharia law does it saw that women shouldnt be educated. Again, no idea where you or these people get this from.

 

I'm not sure the few argument stands up either. I'd say Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia to a certain extent (non of which have free press) are not entirely made up of a few uneducated people.

 

To be fair. not many of these countries are free anyway. they are controlled by the west (apart from Iran for the time-being as far as we can see - other than they were involved in a 10 year war funded by the west against IRAQ) - so lets get everythings into perspective here.

 

 

I'd hope you could tell that i am not against Islam at all but i am simply commenting on the facts as the world presents them. Many Islamic countries, despite their outcrys at the corrupt west and the US are themselves rotten to the very core. It smacks of hypocrisy and explains why so many look to emigrate from these countries. Trouble is they don't always leave their religious baggage behind with them. Arranged marriages and so called honour killings have no place in the UK

 

Glad you are making a distinction between the so called followers of Islam and the religion itself.

 

I agree some people and there are many examples (most times the same culprits) that dont set the right examples. the so called islamic countries are not the only hypocrites, lets not live in glass houses plese.

 

again, arranged marraiges / honour killings DOES NOT EQUAL ISLAM. I would love to meet the biggited person that is feeding you with this propaganda rubbish....this person needs to either get a job or get a life cause it seems like they are fixed on spreading hatred and destruction.

 

 

Danish cartoons?

 

Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

From the desk of Paul Belien on Sat, 2005-10-22 20:25

 

Islam is no laughing matter. The Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten is being protected by security guards and several cartoonists have gone into hiding after the newspaper published a series of twelve cartoons (see them all here, halfway the article) about the prophet Muhammad. According to the Islam it is blasphemous to make images of the prophet. Muslim fundamentalists have threatened to bomb the paper’s offices and kill the cartoonists.

 

I agree, overeaction by those Muslims, HOWEVER...Islam is very important to us muslims...you are entitled to your own point of view however the religion is core to our lives. I would appreciate if people were to recognise that and respect that. By deliberately insighting us and chosing the appropriate time to add even more fuel to a burning fire is pretty irresponsible so some twats in a media position that they are abusing.

 

 

From the BBC:

Police said four people were detained in Amsterdam and one in Amersfoort as part of the same investigation into a network of radical Muslims.

 

Tensions have been high since filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who made a film critical of Islam, was shot dead in the street in a week ago.

 

I have already covered this...in my previous point.

so whats your point??? I can say that Rabin was shot by a radical JEW, how come now one raises an eye-brow against JEWS....

 

I can say that when you look at an orthodox jew in their outfits, etc.....living their own seggregated lives in London, isnt that radicalism too...isnt that an time bomb waiting to happen too..? OR is that something that we can turn a blind eye too...

 

You see someone say something bad about a supra and we all gang up on them and shoot away....

 

forget about a supra, look at the auto vs manual threads - that brings out the rivalries amongst us on a flippin forum...this is human nature...so lets try and be smart and recognise what is actually going on.

 

 

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The 2002 Bali bombing occurred on October 12, 2002 in the resort town of Kuta on the Indonesian island of Bali, where it killed 202 people and injured a further 209. It was the deadliest act of terrorism in Indonesian history. The majority of the dead were foreign tourists, especially Australians, although nearly one-fifth were Indonesian nationals.

 

Do you think that was against Australians, I genuinely dont know.

 

My take on that was simply down to poor security measures and Al-Qaeda or whatever you want to call them wanted to strike terror where they would get media attention. Very disgusting in my opinion...but thats what they are, terrorists. they dont care whether it is you or me or my family...

 

 

 

Again i agree. Religion, whatever it may be has been used badly by a lot of so called supporters. Even now there is sectarian violence in Scotland not to mention Ireland with the Catholics and Protestants. As i said i'm not against Islam but you don't seem to accept the weight of evidence that Islam needs to modernise.

 

There is nothing in Islam that needs to modernise...that is my point from the start. You can apply Islam like our family has and many others like us in todays time in the east, west, uk, us, whereever.....so your point doesnt hold weight, sorry.

 

 

Not saying otherwise but i think you'll find the attacks in Iraq are Sunni versus Shia. The US and UK are not killing anyone. The entire country has a great chance to use US cash to rebuild after the removal of a man who kept power through fear. Instead of seizing the opportunity these muslim 'brothers' are busy blowing each other up.

 

US and UK not killing anyone....wash your hands of any responsibility....OK then...if that is what you believe despite the UK press telling us otherwise then I guess what I say will fall on deaf ears.

 

 

took years to get evidence on him. and yes, freedom of speech. Yuo scoff at that like it is a little thing but again as a basic right we have it along with the right to silence and the right to a fair trial. I don't see places like Iran and Saudi offering the same basic rights to their citizens.

 

why was he in this country in the 1st place? personally I think they were too lienient with him...its not about rights, they guy was a complete idiot - inflammatory kind of character that was insighting hatred.....you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

 

 

No that's censorship by the state. Under your rule anyone could be thrown in jail. You could say "hello" to a copper and he could arrest you for religious hatred if he wanted to. Evidence would be hearsay. Freedom of Speech is a vital part of our society and even if it protects scum like Hamza it has to be defended..

 

Aint my rule mate...wake up...they have passed the law already.

 

 

Tragic accident but these things will occasionally happen. Again these things need to be investigated but in this case the police were just too twitchy.

 

they were lucky, they were only shot at and survivied.

 

What about the others that are NOT so lucky....and many others like him in other countries where OUR TROOPS have been misled into INVADING foreign lands for financial gains.

 

80 in IRAQ die everyday! Over 1500 British troops....WHY?? I dont see Blair or any govt official sending their kids over....

 

Investigated and let go. Fair do's i'd have thought. THinking before shooting. Good work Police chaps. Same as they would/did when someone was supposed to be kidnapping baby Beckham. No one complained that was done on religous grounds.

 

Nice one, why shut down the airport....why the over-reaction when none of the 25 had even bought tickets.....LOL

[imi]

Actively recruiting and favouring muslim coppers? Really racist and why do they need to do that? The "muslim community" is why. I'm not just talking about muslims here, i have the same thoughts on any special interest group be a part of the British community not your own. Join in, learn the language and accept that's how things are done here. Do not complain it isn't run along the same lines of the crappy country you ran away from!

 

m.

 

I dont agree with recruiting to meet ethnic quotas. I agree with recruiting the best regardless of colour and creed. Like in the private sector where you will find the best of what is out there in the UK and if not in the UK then bring them in from other countries. A policy that pays dividends bigtime.

 

As far as crappy countries are concerned, not sure which ones you are referring too. But do bear in mind that INDIA for example, the brits came over in the 1600s and left in 1947, so they stayed there and raped and pillaged the country for a good 400 years. Then in the 40-50 there was a huge need for immigrant workers to help build THIS country and do the jobs that YOU didnt want to do.

 

So its not all hunky dory, look at the facts, study history and wake up and smell the coffee..

 

you cant have it both ways all the time and expect to land on your feet.

 

We live in a global economy where we are interdependant...the rules have changed....so I guess its time for the UK/US to move with the times....and leave the arms / oil race behind.

[imi]

When I read this all I could do was shake my head...

 

In all honesty who cares. Life is too short and if you take offence from things like this you need to get a life

 

I know what you mean, my sentiments exactly, however I cant live a selfish life and protect my own interests..that is not me and not Islamic of me.. If I can help put things in perpective to help you all better understand then I will try, once, twice but not thrice....I have to give up.

 

I have tried to address all the relevant points that were made and I have no need to post in this thread anymore. I am pleased that we managed to keep this conversation civil while having a reasonable discussion.

[Thorin]

imi - I agree with a lot of what you say, but are you (and I may be wrong here) denying that the muslim community as a whole have a problem? Yes I know it's a small percentage minority of muslim's who are waving banners citing hatred etc.... but it's still a large number of people.

 

Why don't you see christians waving banners asking for people to be beheaded, or catholics, or Jews for that matter?

 

I'm Agnostic by the way.

 

edit: I must confess to not being arsed to read most of this thread so forgive me

[Darren-K]

would a western woman be accepted if she was walking down a street in a muslim country dressed in a mini skirt and boob tube ?

i dont think so.

 

jack straw was correct in what he says.

[MaveriK]

By Thorin

I'm Agnostic by the way.

 

I have heard you can get cream for that now

[Thorin]

I have heard you can get cream for that now

 

Brings me out in a rash.

[martin_a]

I have tried to address all the relevant points that were made and I have no need to post in this thread anymore. I am pleased that we managed to keep this conversation civil while having a reasonable discussion.

 

Agreed as i have done likewise. Said at the start i was happy to have a discussion.

 

There are several points we agree on and several i don't think we are any closer on. Things like not needing to modernise i will disagree with especially the way women are treated when it comes to things like rape in Sharia Law. I do agree that honour killings etc do not necessarily equal Islam but there are muslims carrying this act out in the name of Islam and that is what gets it the name. You don't see honour killings amongst other groups.

 

I'll still disagree with you on Iraq too if that is ok. News from the BBC today about 60 bodies found all victims of sectarian, Muslim against Muslim violence, not one US rocket to be mentioned. The people of Iraq have a chance to shape their country instead they are destroying it.

 

I think Thorin puts a good point that many of these things are Muslim issues with people carrying out these acts in the name of Islam. As he said you just don't see this from any other religion and it isn't isolated, as the newspaper reports show this is something that seems to happen across the globe.

 

There seems to be a lot of blaming the west. I respect your religion and i respect your right to practise it in peace but comparing people having their homes raided because of a potential threat to life against innocent nuns being killed because the pope read out some text from 600 years ago rather than discussing it rationally like we have done then i'm afraid that it is understandable to have people concerned about Islam. Again, no other religion seems to do this. Islam needs to have a look at itself and accept some criticism when it is due. Muslims also need to take responsibility for the actions of others carried out in the name of Islam instead of giving excuses or reasons as to why the US / UK / The West has provoked it.

 

Best to leave it there i reckon. Interesting sparring with you. I have learned a few things even if i don't completely agree with what you are saying and my personal experience conflicts.

 

m.

[miko_supra]

This stuff annoys me, and it annoys everyone else, i have to try and ignore it as moaning about it changes nothing and it just makes you even more annoyed. I feel what is happening to islam is similar to a series of religious crusades by Christians many hundreds of years ago, these lasted a good 2/3 hundred years. so sit back and enjoy the show!

[miko_supra]

Another issue i feel which actually annoys allot of minority groups too, is that politically correct weirdo's create an up roar in these certain situations claiming everyone will be offended by such a statement/event, but really no one cares. and so patriotic brits get pi**ed off and thug life start bricking corner shops.

[Darren-K]

we used to be called Great Britain,

but with the watering down of our culture the great has now been lost.

[Thorin]

we used to be called Great Britain,

but with the watering down of our culture the great has now been lost.

 

Racist.