Rob Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 If Jack Straw has done one thing right then he has got the subject out there and being talked about. Good on him for that, and good on him for having the balls to speak his mind instead of pussy-footing around religions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 This is becoming a multi-cultural country and I hate it, within a few decades there will be no 'English' person any more, someone from England could mean any religion, any colour, any belief. It's rubbish. I like being English, I like being patriotic towards our forces, teams like the Red Arrows, when an English person breaks a record etc. Soon that will be gone, the 'tally ho' will be removed, there'll be no jokey stereotype for the Americans to laugh at, just a giant stew of difference - and with the growing PC stupidity it'll become ever more difficult to keep order between 'offended' parties. Well I'm offended. The 25-35 year old caucasian male of no religion over here is offended because his country is being slowly taken over and changed into something else. Who's going to complain to the press about that then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 When in Rome, and all that. This is England and please don't forget it. I have a friend that has lived in a Mouslim country and she was not allowed to drive a car, because she is a woman? - she couldnt claim discrimination, religion or take it to court, she just had to accept it was the way of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 The Koran says that females should "cover their bosom", which is fine but the veil takes it one step more. Poorer women and those that work the land in the Middle East do not wear the veil because it is impractical, the wealthier females of the population wear it. So this has a little less to do with piety, more to do with the appearance of being wealthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 The Koran says that females should "cover their bosom", which is fine I can't believe that you think that's fine! The covering of bosoms is highly unacceptable in my opinion. I wouldn't be shocked if some of the more mentally challeged BNP types started wearing KKK hoods because "if they can cover up then so can we" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithaldo Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 If people come into this country they should respect our way of life, our social standings. It's like the politicians let in people and bascially put them on the top step in importance, and let the people of thei country feel like a minority. Political correctness is so over the top, I mean, not being able to sing Baa Baa Black Sheep because it's deemed racist, not being able to display a St George Cross in you window incase it offends "non-english" people. Get real, you come to this country, you accept that you are the "England", we are not a muslim country. I watched this program about suicide bombers a while back and there was a brother of one of the guys that blew himself up in Tel-Aviv. He basically turned around and said that they would not be happy until we were all living under Islamic law. I think it's a disgrace that we can't even celebrate St George's day without offending "non-english" people that live here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 More views: http://boards.live.com/UKNewsboards/thread.aspx?ThreadID=102885 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 ...I think it's a disgrace that we can't even celebrate St George's day without offending "non-english" people that live here. I think it's a disgrace that these people are invited, housed, fed and encouraged to procreate - then told they can't do this or that, and erect all these double standards, double-speak and beating around the bush. The politicians are saying one thing and secretly doing another. It wasn't too long ago that Tony Blair went to Kosovo and invited all Albanians to come to the UK. (Knowing what Albanians are like, I couldn't stop laughing) When they started flocking here, they faced hostility, disbelief and abuse - even from the same politicians that were inviting and paying* for them to be here. They are doing the same with numerous other countries, and it's not fair to these poor bastids to be used as political football. How about some straight-talk, eh? * Actually 'paying' is a strong word. They were (and still are) releasing public money to pay for houses where they can keep their families. These houses are usually owned (buy-to-let often) by companies or individuals with close links to the aforementioned politicians. Everyone's a winner. Food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I have a friend that has lived in a Mouslim country and she was not allowed to drive a car, because she is a woman? - she couldnt claim discrimination, religion or take it to court, she just had to accept it was the way of the country. Just for clarification. You mean Saudi. Not the case in other Islamic countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 If people come into this country they should respect our way of life, our social standings. It's like the politicians let in people and bascially put them on the top step in importance, and let the people of thei country feel like a minority.. THEY ARE BRITISH...BORN AND BRED HERE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 THEY ARE BRITISH...BORN AND BRED HERE. Do you know all of them or are you making a general comment in the same way as the earlier poster? "They" is quite generic, I'm of the opinion that this country contains a mix of people born here (various religions and backgrounds) and an assortment of people who have moved in from other countries around the world. I don't have a problem with either group but I don't like narrow-minded individuals who only think in black and white, I prefer a creamy beige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_a Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 How do you reason with a religion that thinks like this? http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/183/freedom2au6.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 How do you reason with a religion that thinks like this? http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/183/freedom2au6.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/martin_a/heady.jpg Some Supra owners are complete tossers.....does that mean that all of us are tossers too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_a Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Not at all, trouble is this sort of thing happens too often and Straw is right that Islam needs to tackle these people head on. While you've got imams in place encouraging this kind of behaviour nothing is going to be done. On the veil thing there was an army recruitment advert years ago asking what would you do? The camera rolled up to a guy shouting and screaming and possibly waving a weapon (not clear on that one). Any way the questions were things like Do you shoot or not?" Next thing you see a hand come up and sunglasses are removed. The point was you can think as well as shoot and open face conversation is the best way to put people at ease. To that end i think Straw is right. m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Not at all, trouble is this sort of thing happens too often and Straw is right that Islam needs to tackle these people head on. While you've got imams in place encouraging this kind of behaviour nothing is going to be done. Who's Islam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Who's Islam? I am *waves* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_a Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Who's Islam? I suspect you know very well what i meant. Happy to have a serious discussion if you are but i ain't playing silly buggers! m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I suspect you know very well what i meant. No, I don't.... With over 1.5 Billion muslims in the world today, if we were all like "millitant" like the ones in the pic then we wouldnt be having a civil discussion on this board. We wouldnt be having a discussion full stop/ So by posting such stupid pics like the ones you did, not sure exactly what point you are trying to put across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 You know exactly what he meant, you are simply using his use of the word 'Islam' to try and belittle his opinion. I read his comment to mean that he feels that the leaders of the Islamic religion should be making more of an effort to deal with the extreme wings or at least condoning their actions in a bid to alienate them from the majority of peaceful types. The pictures were an example of the kind of people he was talking about - it seemed to be in context to me. 1.5 billion misguided puppets that are unable to exist without a reliance on a fictional God, I pity them in the same way as I pity the 2.1 billion Christians, I might like the Unitarians though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesmark Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 As I said in earlier post, you* can question/challenge in any sense Catholics, Chritians, Jahovah's etc and it ends there, people may not be happy, however the monent we question Muslim or Islam all fucking hell breaks loose, You never see any other religion do acts of terrorism. So why do Muslims think they have the right to do this? to protest to warn of vengence when no other religion does this although they may protest but those protest are different they are almost always peacefull. So why is the Muslim faith better than anyone elses, that they have to throw a sissy fit the moment someone says something against there faith? Do they think they are better than any other religion in the world? * You as in general and not pointing out any religion or skin colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_a Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 With people like Abu Hamza in positions of power and people who have actually stated they want to see an Islamic state in Britain looked up to by members of the Muslim community then i'm afraid the situation won't change. Similar to the Danish cartoons, if muslim/islamic groups stopped behaving like this in the first place then they could stop playing to the stereotype. Moderation and discussion is the key. I'd be happy for Islam/Muslims to bring their religion into the modern world but that doesn't seem likely to happen anytime soon. And don't say it is just a few people. Unfortunately world events just don't back this up. The devoutly religous Taliban did a great job. Iran, now there is a forward thinking beacon of civil rights. Iraq, decending into civil war as muslims attack their own instead of working together to build a new country. Sudan and the muslim militias, Turkey another human rights hell hole etc etc. Government by religion, especially one as rigid as Islam just doesn't work - or at least doesn't give a high quality of life to anyone not in power. m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithaldo Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Who's Islam? Wasn't he the Lion in The Chronicles of Narnia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 You know exactly what he meant, you are simply using his use of the word 'Islam' to try and belittle his opinion. I read his comment to mean that he feels that the leaders of the Islamic religion should be making more of an effort to deal with the extreme wings or at least condoning their actions in a bid to alienate them from the majority of peaceful types. The pictures were an example of the kind of people he was talking about - it seemed to be in context to me. 1st - The leaders of the muslim council in Britain are doing their best to dismiss such imbiscles, however the media chose not to give them a lot of air time, so their message aint getting to the masses like yourselves. 2nd - sometimes it makes me wonder why troublemakers like Mr Hamza and similar are given so much airtime. In the case of Mr Hamza - it took several years before they extradited him. There are many more like him, so they would be a good place to start. with people like that, its the POLICE that needs to take action as in most cases they either support / propagate terrorism so a fairly easy case to solve... 1.5 billion misguided puppets that are unable to exist without a reliance on a fictional God, I pity them in the same way as I pity the 2.1 billion Christians, I might like the Unitarians though. Now this bit has nothing to do with the thread topic so appreciate it if you would either start a new thread sharing your philosophy or shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 people who have actually stated they want to see an Islamic state in Britain looked up to by members of the Muslim community See 'all muslims'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 With people like Abu Hamza in positions of power and people who have actually stated they want to see an Islamic state in Britain looked up to by members of the Muslim community then i'm afraid the situation won't change. Similar to the Danish cartoons, if muslim/islamic groups stopped behaving like this in the first place then they could stop playing to the stereotype. Moderation and discussion is the key. I'd be happy for Islam/Muslims to bring their religion into the modern world but that doesn't seem likely to happen anytime soon. And don't say it is just a few people. Unfortunately world events just don't back this up. The devoutly religous Taliban did a great job. Iran, now there is a forward thinking beacon of civil rights. Iraq, decending into civil war as muslims attack their own instead of working together to build a new country. Sudan and the muslim militias, Turkey another human rights hell hole etc etc. Government by religion, especially one as rigid as Islam just doesn't work - or at least doesn't give a high quality of life to anyone not in power. m. LOL - you are funny. EDIT - HOLD ON, I will highlight the bits that made me chuckle, anyways, I am out of here. You guys carry on believing what you want. CIAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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