Tricky-Ricky Posted October 14, 2006 Author Share Posted October 14, 2006 Results of my tests on my dampers that i carried out today spliced some bullet connectors onto the red and black wires from the dampers, and then made a harness incorporating a switch and a fuse, tried 2 amp at first but this blew, so reverted to a 10amp, unfortunately the only wire long enough that i had was 0.024" solid which equates to 1 AWG so a bit to small but all i had, and it had a tendency to heat up a bit :nervous: but anyway on to the test, I did initially try a 50K pot in line but this is obviously not enough to vary the voltage enough! Anybody know what value i would need to vary the voltage from say 1 or 2 volts to 12 volts?? the test was static, and the result of putting 12v through the red and black wires is to make the damping a lot softer! not what i was hoping for, as i thought it might go harder :1poke: I checked the green and yellow wires between earth and each other for resistance but nothing, and also voltage, this is where i saw a reading of 0.80v for the green and 0.70v for the yellow when the power was switched on and this varied by about 0.08v when the shocks where bounced up and down, so i am guessing that this is a piezo feed back for a controller, So i think i can have variable damping if i wire them up with a switch and the right calibrated potentiometer? but unfortunately not any harder! :sad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTT Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Ok bud, I know i said i would take a piccie of mine, and that i have failed to do so, but like i said, i've been real busy helping Bedlam, and prepping mine for Crail:cool: I'll check the voltage on mine across each wire, on normal, pwr, and track day, and i can tell you, on track day (realy diagnostic mode) the shockies are set to zero rebound and the ride is rock hard:) I should be able to get this done for you during the course of the week as i'll not be to busy at work, so please bear with me;) Andra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Well that's progress How about reversing the polarity, should move the actuator in the other direction? Dunno how much current these actuators take to drive them, but it does seem a bit high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 15, 2006 Author Share Posted October 15, 2006 Well that's progress How about reversing the polarity, should move the actuator in the other direction? Dunno how much current these actuators take to drive them, but it does seem a bit high Good point, didn't think about that, will give it a try tomorrow;) current wise don't think its that much as it didn't blow the 10 amp fuse, i think the wire just got hot cos its not really suted to the job small gauge and solid, and it was really old:innocent: AndyTT thanks mate whenever your ready:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Oh aye - high stall now Andy! What stall did you go for? Think you can take me now eh!? Cheers, Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 15, 2006 Author Share Posted October 15, 2006 I have now tried with reverse polarity, after checking to make sure that there are no earths to the chassis, and the result is the same, so i guess the fluid is electro magnetic viscosity, unless the its a limited valve, anyway thanks for the suggestion:) all i have to do now is work out an adjustment system? i know it will need a pot and have a rough value of 0-15 ohm rated at 30 amp, the current draw i think, is just under 5 amp, but someone said that i would also need a voltage regulator in the circuit, so now i'm a little confused? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 the current draw i think, is just under 5 amp That's way too high for tems! /vbb/images/smilies/bbcode_shock.gif The tems unit is fed from the 15A 'electronics' fuse which also powers the indicators, windows, sunroof etc etc. so no way is that enough to power 4 lots of 5A. I found an article that said tems used an 88 layer stacked piezo actuator, and looking around it seems like these things are driven by about 100V at fairly low current (mA). The load they present is mostly capacitative, so they're fed with a resistor inline to limit the current. As they charge up, they'll draw less current. http://www.physikinstrumente.com/en/products/prdetail.php?sortnr=400600.75 http://www.piezo.com/prodstacks1.html Gotta admit I'm confused as well, but if they're not tems, wtf are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 So can anyone tell me just what i need to make an adjustable controller? not good with electronics:blink: the dampers have a resistance of 2.5 and 3.5 each, and i would like to be able to take the voltage down from 12v to 1V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTT Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I checked the voltages at the plug and found them all to have .25mv across each. I tried it again with engine running, and with the shifter in drive with the hand brake well up tight. Tried it again in pwr and diagnostic mode, the same, how the h*ll this works i really don't know:search: Andra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 So can anyone tell me just what i need to make an adjustable controller? not good with electronics the dampers have a resistance of 2.5 and 3.5 each, and i would like to be able to take the voltage down from 12v to 1V. Anyone?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Given the high current draw, I'm now thinking that these probably aren't tems, the low resistance suggests that perhaps there's a motor in there. If so, you need more than just a fixed voltage to drive it. On the other hand, applying 12V made a difference, which isn't what I'd expect if it was a motor. Sorry, but I can't tell you how to drive it if we don't know what it is. Could you measure resistance across each pair of wires on a strut and post up the results? (6 readings, all the combinations of two wires out of the four). Maybe that will give us another clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I checked the voltages at the plug and found them all to have .25mv across each. I tried it again with engine running, and with the shifter in drive with the hand brake well up tight. Tried it again in pwr and diagnostic mode, the same, how the h*ll this works i really don't know:search: Thanks Andra! Puzzling though.. I was sure you'd find a voltage there in diagnostic mode, most likely between pins 1 and 4 but maybe 2 and 3. Anything up to 100V... not sure if it would show up if you measured each wire against the chassis? http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid216/p12e6e8bcb10939882f8a432c612ba77f/eca8ed69.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTT Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Thanks Andra! Puzzling though.. I was sure you'd find a voltage there in diagnostic mode, most likely between pins 1 and 4 but maybe 2 and 3. Anything up to 100V... not sure if it would show up if you measured each wire against the chassis? [qimg]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid216/p12e6e8bcb10939882f8a432c612ba77f/eca8ed69.jpg[/qimg] Thats how i did measure the wires, against the chassis. I removed one of the grommets to gain access to the wires while the plug was connected, and the readings were just the same. Maybe they don't get a current untill the car is moving? Thats why i tried it in "D" with the hand brake well up and the wheels choked. Andra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 The wires are coloured red, black, green and yellow, a resistance only exists between red and black no others or to earth, when 12v is applied to the red and black, the dampers go a lot softer, the only change in the other two wires are a very small 0.70 and 0.80 V when 12v is applied which varies slightly when the shocks are bounced, so i'm guessing this is some kind of feed back, i did not risk trying 12V to the other wires as there was no resistance! The resistance between the red and black is 2.5 one side and 3.5 the other, i am guessing at the current draw, The whole idea is to try using a pot to adjust the voltage in the hope i can adjust the damping, but i don't know for sure what value i need, and its also been suggested that i may need a voltage regulator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTT Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Maybe you should try and find a spare TEMS shockie, and do some testing on the bench? The JDM Gen 5 Celica GT-R had the same set-up, well the model with 4ws had anyway. If you crack this one, then your onto a winner:) Andra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Thats how i did measure the wires, against the chassis. I removed one of the grommets to gain access to the wires while the plug was connected, and the readings were just the same. I think you might only get a reading with a probe on pin 1, and the other on pin 4. If it's 100V it's quite feasible it's isolated from the main vehicle supply and earth. Maybe they don't get a current untill the car is moving? Thats why i tried it in "D" with the hand brake well up and the wheels choked. My guess is that diagnostic mode would override all that, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 The wires are coloured red, black, green and yellow, a resistance only exists between red and black no others or to earth, when 12v is applied to the red and black, the dampers go a lot softer, the only change in the other two wires are a very small 0.70 and 0.80 V when 12v is applied which varies slightly when the shocks are bounced, so i'm guessing this is some kind of feed back, i did not risk trying 12V to the other wires as there was no resistance! The resistance between the red and black is 2.5 one side and 3.5 the other, i am guessing at the current draw, I'm afraid I'm running out of ideas on this I asked about the resistances to see whether it might be a stepper motor, but I guess it's not. Like tems, it appears to have an actuator and a sensor, but from what I know of tems (which isn't much ) the actuator appears to be different. The risk is greater with the low resistance as it will draw more current and possibly burn out. The whole idea is to try using a pot to adjust the voltage in the hope i can adjust the damping, but i don't know for sure what value i need, and its also been suggested that i may need a voltage regulator? A pot simply wouldn't be man enough to do the job - you can get power rheostats that handle the current but they're big and expensive compared to using a regulator. Anyway, don't you want to firm them up? So far they've only gone soft... maybe that's all that'll do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 Out of curiosity i ran another test , this time i used a battery charger which can supply 6V or 12V and also has a hi and low output, and the outcome was that i could fell no appreciable change in damping when bouncing the car when using 6V or 12V and varying between the hi and low outputs, which gave voltages of 3.98 and 8.80 depending on the setting! the amp meter on the charger was also showing nearly 8 amps on the lowest setting! So does this mean that its not worth making a controller? or that the voltage needs to go lower for any change to take place?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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