Darren-K Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 How do you know that you're not going to suffer a heart attack, go careering off the road and hit a pedestrian? but then that does happen all the time to people al over the world,. and in planes and in boats - a dog attack is no accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECK Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 a car can cause all sorts of damage even in the right hands just as a badly raised dog in the hands of a idiot owner can do the same but that still doesnt justify saying no one must own such types of dogs you say a dog has emotions well so do people! lets be honest here how many people on this forum has done something stupid in the car when being pissd off at someone or something! im willing to bet everyone has! lets ban humans too then!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt k Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 but then that does happen all the time to people al over the world,. and in planes and in boats - a dog attack is no accident. So does the dog get out a note pad and plan the attack like a bank robber would? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-K Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 So does the dog get out a note pad and plan the attack like a bank robber would? a dog decides to attack - it doesnt attack by accident. @ Muffleman - thats a beautifull looking dog b t w. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-K Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 its a diff argument. a car can cause all sorts of damage even in the right hands just as a badly raised dog in the hands of a idiot owner can do the same but that still doesnt justify saying no one must own such types of dogs you say a dog has emotions well so do people! lets be honest here how many people on this forum has done something stupid in the car when being pissd off at someone or something! im willing to bet everyone has! lets ban humans too then!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECK Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 So I sent him to a police dog trainer of over 20years, extremely successful and not cheap ! He trained my dog one-on-one for 8weeks, and then for a further 6weeks at weekends with me. This dog would walk to heel off the lead, sit, down, stay, beg, stop in his tracks when running, he was a perfectly behaved and trained dog, I know cos I spent years doing it. However, he would still get that 'look in his eye', and if you're a dog owner, you know what I mean. After all my efforts, I had to give in and rehome him, the hardest thing I have ever done and I don't mind letting on that I'm welling up as I type. 28th December last year, we had a house fire, I lost my entire house contents and two cats - didn't shed a tear. Hand my dog over ? Cried like a baby. I have had to accept a few things. A dog IS a loaded gun, regardless of training. They ARE animals with instincts. I wonder if there was something mentally wrong with my dog, I don't know. But I love dogs and I have to accept that they ARE a risk. Still miss ya mate. [qimg]http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8582/supra008smalleq9.jpg[/qimg] you seem to be a responsable kind of a guy that can notice behaveriol pattern in a dog and do something about it im not saying every dog is a saint because its just not true what i am saying is if youre dog had responded well to training you would still have him today point in case if you ask me ITS NOT THE DOG ITS THE OWNER!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupra Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I have a Doby / Lab cross, its a big dog (looks like an all black Doby), an my two children have grown up with it. Its a loving an loyal part of the family, but is also one of the best guard dogs (of the house an family) I've ever known. Its all about how a dog is treated, an how its brought up. IMO big dogs shouldn't be banned, I know of more small snappy dogs that have gone for people an other dogs, than I do large dogs doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECK Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 its a diff argument. I DONT SEE IT THAT WAY the dog and human both have imotions yes? how many times have you been in a pub/bar and someone picks a fight with you for no reason? i bet it has happend more times than a dog has had a go at someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Can't agree I'm afraid, he DID respond to training, walked to heel off the lead, sat, down, stayed etc. Nothing else could be done, IT WAS THE DOG !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECK Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I have a Doby / Lab cross, its a big dog (looks like an all black Doby), an my two children have grown up with it. Its a loving an loyal part of the family, but is also one of the best guard dogs (of the house an family) I've ever known. Its all about how a dog is treated, an how its brought up. IMO big dogs shouldn't be banned, I know of more small snappy dogs that have gone for people an other dogs, than I do large dogs doing it. well said that man!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supraaaaaaaaaa Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 cos its an attractive and aesthetically pleasing car, and i need a car for work - however with me behind the wheel its predictable,. and dont point the car at kids or people in the street.. where-as a dog thats bred for hunting or fighting has emotions , and them emotions can be unpredictable. the car argument doesnt cut it as its a controlled vehicle - dogs are not. yes, but there is no doubt a supra is more dangerous than a fiesta !!! who is to say you wont have a fit, or look at the radio for to long, or even fall asleep, humans can not be 100% predictable !!! who is to say work wont get to much for you one day, you may loose your partner, you may loose your house, your kids and so you decide to drive your car into a central reservation at 140 due to stress {so you cant argue you wouldnt do that as you would be under stress !!} but the car kills other people as well, happens often unfortunately !! these dogs were bred to fight and kill, but so where most of us if you go back far enough, simply the strongest survived the battels at war and the biggest and most skillfull fighters got the ladys and we became better killers, with training etc, you know how to throw a punch with otu being taught to, if a young kid gets annoyed they flail there arms trying to hit the other person, because its breed into us, but we have control over it, i dont think you give dogs enough credit the know when something is right and when something is wrong !! its all down to the owner !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supraaaaaaaaaa Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I have a Doby / Lab cross, its a big dog (looks like an all black Doby), an my two children have grown up with it. Its a loving an loyal part of the family, but is also one of the best guard dogs (of the house an family) I've ever known. Its all about how a dog is treated, an how its brought up. IMO big dogs shouldn't be banned, I know of more small snappy dogs that have gone for people an other dogs, than I do large dogs doing it. infact the only dog i have ever been bitten by was a damn little white terrier when i was 8 and it bite me in the face, as i fell over near it !! big dogs in general imo are far more loving of children than small yappy dogs at the end of the day to many people by the wrong breed for them not the dogs fault the owners !! does anyone know the most likely breed of dog to bite a human is ??? i do and will tell all later !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Apparently there is a 2000 character limit per post... My God, you really have no idea what you are talking about. Ok, here goes: is it ?, see how you feel if your babies face was chewed off - idiot. When I was three I was bitten in the face by our Fox Terrier. Do I blame the dog? Not for a second, I was being a pain in the arse, antagonising her. She was 8 months old when I was born, and we were like the best of friends until she died at 13y.o, she was fantastic to grow up with. i react with abuse if im insulted - read back a bit - drivel ? but then you probably love big dogs with big sharp teeth huh ? and have a massive studded collar on it ? who`s more ignorant ? me or you for loving these dogs ? Tell you what, I'll show you a picture of him to prove he hasn't got a studded collar or a harness nicked from a roman chariot: So far your ignorance is overwhelming. give me 1 reason why you feel the need to have a big dog or a traditional hunting or fighting dog in your household ? just 1 ? you cant cos there arent any - cars are neccesary. Just one? You only want one? I tell you what, I could start a dogblog and write so much about the little fella this site's bandwidth bill would go through the roof. If you look up a Staffy's breed standard it will say "excellent with children" & "totaly reliable". It is only one of two breeds that is reccomended by the Kennel Club for children. A Labrador or a Poodle does not have the claim to being the second dog either. He is an awesome companion, he is so friendly it's just magic. He is far, far less snappy than the aformentioned Fox Terrier or my parents current Collie Cross. FWIW I don't trust the collie with another dog, as he has started fights in the past- my Staffy hasn't started a single one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Cars are neccesary? In a lot of cases, but a 1450kg 30mpg medalion "look at me wagon" (well you never bought a SZ for the performance) could be substituted for a Vauxhall Tigra- hey save the planet too! 1.4, 50mpg, weights 1000kg so you'll have less kenetic energy if you get it wrong and wipe out a bus queue- it'll also be better for pedestrian safety & if you smash into another car. correct we are,. but then we are predictable,. the ones that arent show up in society and are usualy locked up. not dogs tho. No, the dogs are executed instead. It's also worthy of note that more dogs are killed by people, than people killed by dogs. Some uncomfortable reading coming up: 25% of all rapes recorded by Police are commited against children under 16. Of children seeking refuge: 7% of children experienced serious physical abuse at the hands of their parents or carers during childhood. 1% of children experienced sexual abuse by a parent Every week in England and Wales one to two children will die following cruelty- that's 1-2 a week- what's the dog's tally for this YEAR? I bet it ain't 1-2 a week- I bet it isn't even 1-2 a month- at this rate it's just one this year... On average one child is killed by their parent or carer every week in England and Wales. ...so by this a child is more likely to be murdered or raped by their own parents than killed by a dog. Are you going to call for a ban on parents now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 there is still no reason to own that type of animal., why own that particular type of animal ? why not a pomeranion ? This is fantastic. This statement reminds me of WKDTime's "the smoke was black because there was no oxygen" from the WTC7 thread. Do you want to stand up now and announce to the forum you know fuck all about dogs? From the encylopedic dogs info page (if it ain't on there it doesn't exist) on Pom's: "Willful, bold and sometimes temperamental. If it is properly introduced they usually get along with other dogs and household animals without any problems, but some of them seem to think they are much larger than they actually are and do not hesitate to attack much bigger dogs" & "Not recommended for very young children. Too much attention from children can make these dogs nervous and they may become snappish". Do you think you picked a bad example? Other reasons why I own a staffy & not a Pom: A Staff has hardly any health issues- cataracts being the biggie- the Pom gets this lot: Some blood lines are prone to slipped stifle, dislocated patella (knee-cap), heart and skin problems, and eye infections. Next reason: Pom: The Pomeranian's very long, double coat should be brushed frequently. If you work from the head, parting the coat and brushing it forward, it will fall neatly back in place, so the task, although time-consuming, is relatively easy. The cottony undercoat is shed once or twice a year. Dry shampoo when necessary. Clean the eyes and ears daily and take the dog for regular dental checkups. The Pomeranian is a constant shedder. Staff: Short hair, medium shedder, no care required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Other reasons, other than they are nasty vicious antisocial expensive handbag fluffballs- a Staffy is great to play with, excercise with, cycle through the woods, play with the kids, look after you and yours, guard the house (he's already stopped two burglaries) and immense comfort to a night worker- you cannot put a price on that level of reasurance when you are working nights. Have you ever, in the history of the world read "Mrs Smith was raped while walking her Rottweiler"? I think you'll be hard pushed to find such a case. ok,why not a cat ? or rabbit or ferret ? why a dog thats bred for fighting ? Cats are horrible little scumbags that have had a notible effect on the local wildlife population (you can google this too), the RSPB issued a statement earlier this year that many, many species of bird were under threat by domestic cats. Other than that, I'm allergic to cats. Also, you pay your £30 a month to feed/insure/vetbills your moggie, only for it to sleep all day and fuck off all night, and if it gets a better offer will desert you- fucks sake you may as well set up a direct debit with the WWF and adopt a White Rhino, it'll be exactly the same experiance. Rabbits do not have a personality, they stink, they bite scratch and generaly do the square root of fuck all, I've had three and won't have any more. You are moaning about dogs yet suggest a ferret? Pass me that Pomeranian please.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I didn't choose Casper becuase he was a fighting breed- I chose him inspite of it- the fact that dog fighting was banned 150-170 years seems lost on you. The Staffy was seriously late to the party- the breed is only 200 years old! They were continued to be bred because they are good with people. cos its an attractive and aesthetically pleasing car, and i need a car for work - however with me behind the wheel its predictable,. and dont point the car at kids or people in the street.. where-as a dog thats bred for hunting or fighting has emotions , and them emotions can be unpredictable. the car argument doesnt cut it as its a controlled vehicle - dogs are not. A Tigra is just as caperble and getting you to work. The chassis was tweeked by Lotus for predictability, and some find it aesthicaly pleasing too. Just think of the extra 450kg's you are lugging about incase you crash, oh, and you're killing the planet with your extra 1600cc's you don't need too. Controlled vehicle- you're only human, the apex predator of earth- did you know only Polar Bears consider us food- we are that high up the food chain. We are hunters, we've been around for 2 million years- we have emotions too. Hell there is a kid in the USA right now with a gun in a school. Remember us apex preditors have to get into a 1500kg metal box at some point.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 im think im raising a fair argument for the other side,. jus because some people dont like what im saying there reacting badly - its just how i see it., one can not deny these dogs are bred for fighting, and no animal is 100% safe around anyone 100% of the time., the car argument doesnt cut it., im not gonna get in a bad mood and point my car at a baby am i ? an animal like the dogs mentioned above have in the genes and more importantly instinct to hunt,and kill - and no matter what upbrining an animal has its allways there. personaly i have a big baseball bat for burglars. Had you stated facts and truth, then no one would have cared. Hell some of us may have agreed with you. But you didn't, you posted uninformed rubbish about animals you clearly do not know anything about. To answer the rest of your post would just be repeating myself. Regarding our 2 million years as hunters... but then that does happen all the time to people al over the world,. and in planes and in boats - a dog attack is no accident. According to TrafPol neither are car accidents. You are half right though, there is always a trigger for a dog attack. Sometimes the dog is unhinged from birth, other times the dog has not been brought up properly, and sometimes the dog has been provoked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 This is fantastic. This statement reminds me of WKDTime's "the smoke was black because there was no oxygen" from the WTC7 thread. Sorry slightly off topic, "Black smoke indicates a lack of air and unburnt volatiles escaping to atmosphere. A fire of the kind shown (right) gives very bad results in maintaining steam, causes a great loss of heat and much smoke". Ref: http://www.kesr-operating.org.uk/combustion.htm Lack of knowledge...? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Sorry slightly off topic, "Black smoke indicates a lack of air and unburnt volatiles escaping to atmosphere. A fire of the kind shown (right) gives very bad results in maintaining steam, causes a great loss of heat and much smoke". Ref: http://www.kesr-operating.org.uk/combustion.htm Lack of knowledge...? I don't think so. I was showna video during my fire fighting training that contradicts this- iot was a football stadium fire in the 1980's- gimmie a mo and I'll see if it's online- I'll PM you either way to save this thread though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Muffleman, (Sorry I don't know your real name, is it Matt?) Thanks for posting your story about your dog, it really touched me. Pneumoni, Shame on you for some of the things you've said tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I was showna video during my fire fighting training that contradicts this- iot was a football stadium fire in the 1980's- gimmie a mo and I'll see if it's online- I'll PM you either way to save this thread though Mmm ok mate, im not saying your wrong, all im saying is that i can back up what i said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew7 Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 okay why own a supra when you could own a fiesta then !!! A supra won't attack anyone on its own violition...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 A supra won't attack anyone on its own violition...... I work with a guy who had an old automatic car (I forget the make) anyway he pulled up to his garage, got out, and went to open the door. This car wasn't particuly powerful and could be left in drive and not creep- so he left it in drive. As it was a short journey the car wasn't fully warmed, the choke came on, the revs rose, the torque convertor wound up and the car pinned him to the door. I know what you mean though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-K Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 look Gazboy, everything you typed above in defence of such dogs confirms my beliefe that you are probably the banjo player from the Deliverence. - because its such crap, i stand by everything i said, and i do actualy like dogs - but do you have to be so insultive calling me ignorant all the time,thats why i called you an idiot - you called me ignorant and said what i said was drivel - just because i have a different belief than you. everything you said in defence of having a mike tyson type dog is flawed,and seems to me your clutching at straws desperate in these dogs defense - the comparison to cars is totaly hilarious - and if your intelligence wont allow you to see why then thats a pity,. and incredibly weve actualy heard from a high quality owner who owned a rare but nonethelss aggressive dog - he had it trained in every manner available - yet he felt incomfortable with it around his baby,. the fact is man your wrong and i think deep down inside you know it. thats my belief and you wont change that. youll see that im right by the end of the year when owning such dogs are banned - theyll be banned for the safety of the general public. but dont call me ignorant - im actualy very intelligent. thats all i have to say on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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