Homer Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Legacy systems (e.g Cobol/CICS/db2) are another big money area but no way will you get experience of those at Uni. Most of these positions will be contract where education means nothing - experience everything (and you need proven background to do this sort of thing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I wouldn't base my future around legacy. At some point legacy will get too old(er) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Legacy systems (e.g Cobol/CICS/db2) are another big money area but no way will you get experience of those at Uni. Most of these positions will be contract where education means nothing - experience everything (and you need proven background to do this sort of thing). True, but I wouldnt go to Uni hoping to learn how to program in a language based on what I was taught there. They teach fundamentals, theres no point them teaching a language which will be quickly out of date, sometimes before you've even finished the degree. They should provide you with the skillset to be able to pick up any object orientated programming language pretty much, and learn the language in your own time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabs Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I work in IT support and studied IT as a masters degree for 4yrs, coming out with a Distinction/1st grade. In my HONEST opinion the degree was a waste of time. I could have done a degree in music and still be where i am today. A degree these days just shows the ability to learn. Anyway, the company I work for has just been bought out by motorola, and jobs are on the line as you'd expect. Really wish I had been a plumber/painter/decorator as I have mates that left at school/college level and are earning twice what I'm on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mk47 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 hmm, financial and banking sounds good except im hopeless with maths. i really think i need to get hold of a careers advisor as i dont want to be doing something ill hate and besides we all work for the £ id like lots of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabs Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 True, but I wouldnt go to Uni hoping to learn how to program in a language based on what I was taught there. They teach fundamentals, theres no point them teaching a language which will be quickly out of date, sometimes before you've even finished the degree. They should provide you with the skillset to be able to pick up any object orientated programming language pretty much, and learn the language in your own time. Hit the nail on the head there - my degree covered over 10 programming languages - but ask me to write a program in any one of them and I couldnt, bar the basics. You have to learn the rest of the language yourself, and develop your skills OUTSIDE of uni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Exactly Bobbeh, Uni education will only get you a 1st job or you first batch of jobs. Its pretty meaningless after that. I've never employed anyone based on their education, only their experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I wouldnt say the degree is a waste of time.. without it you'd probably struggle to get a job, or even a looking in some of the top IT consultancy firms in this country, many of which specify a BSc 2.1 in a science subject minimum before they even consider you. But I know what you're saying. It helps you get your foot in the door more than anything, but you need to learn as you do otherwise you'll sink. Its certainly not the thing it used to be. The problem with many graduates... is that many come out expecting big bucks straight away simply because they're qualified and in IT, its not always like that these days sadly, the market is awash with skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I wouldnt say the degree is a waste of time... I would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I would erm... me too. I've spent the last 3 years working with people with degrees doing a job they didn't train for (because they can't get a job doing what they DID train for) on minimum wage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I have friends in the same position, even with Masters degrees, but long term they will be in a better position than those without. It totally depends on what you want to do with yourself and how far you are looking to travel/venture out. Even starting your own business it can benfit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamanC Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 If you really arnt sure what you want to do then it maybe worth going into support (2nd and 3rd line) however there are many graduates that will be in your same position so the compatition is hard. Anyways, going into support will allow you to get a feel for the industry, hopefully you will latch onto something you enjoy (enjoy being the key word in the whole of this reply). What you learn at uni will count towards 10% of the skills you will be using 5 years latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I wouldnt say the degree is a waste of time.. without it you'd probably struggle to get a job, or even a looking in some of the top IT consultancy firms in this country, many of which specify a BSc 2.1 in a science subject minimum before they even consider you. Don't get me wrong, I don't think its a waste of time, far from it - if only for character building! However I so often see misguided grads expecting to walk into high paid jobs when they have absolutely no business experience. A degree is a foot in the door of IT, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I've been in IT since '88. The most rewarding jobs I've had so far were when I was the sole IT guy for relatively small companies. You get to make the decisions and implement them. I started off as IT Manager for the RAC Training Centre in the Army. Great hands-on job as I physically installed over 250 PCs in a year. Then I was made their data analyst - not so good as I was staring at figures all day (the number sort). Left the Army and got a job as a Notes programmer. Crap, but I got the promoted to IT Manager after a year. That was brilliant until the company got taken over. A couple of minor jobs as Notes programmer (again), Customer Services Manager (eurgh) and I finally got poached by my current employer. They were a small company with only 30 PCs and 1 server in head office and wanted to expand big time. 4 years later and we're up to a WAN of over 250 PCs, 9 servers, SQL database (blah, blah, blah). My latest projects include setting up a nationwide VPN, linking up to an Insurance Co's systems, and installing 2-way satellite ADSL in our of our more remote branches. 2 years ago I recruited my first member of staff. 2 months ago my second. Both of those guys were building, installing and repairing PCs for a local company. They had almost no network experience but were very computer savvy, having been out on the ground fixing PCs and sorting out various problems for a couple of years. They stood head and shoulders above all the "paper qualified" candidates I interviewed. Lots of waffle above, but it boils down to this: Don't expect to jump straight in to a well paid job. Be prepared to put in a couple of years ground work to gain experience. (Look what happened when I left the Army.) Experience will always count more than paper qualifications. (Yes, you probably have wasted your time at Uni.) It's better to be a big fish in a small pond and grow when it expands than to be a small fish in a large sea. Hope that helped, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 A degree is a foot in the door of IT, nothing more. This varies depending where you go and what the 'IT' job is. Doing support / helpdesk type work isnt going to utilise anything most IT graduates have picked up and programmers probably only use very limited amounts of their course material studied. Then again, if you're doing consultancy, or system design, working in a team of people developing systems from the ground up, working with quality procedures etc and actually liasing with non IT informed people, it can have massive benefits (imho). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I would Me too, but I had a good time doing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 If you can get a shite load of cisco qualifications AND actually know your stuff then theres still money to be had, but in general IT is not as well paid as it was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schtuv Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Advice much appreciated from all OK - here's my rambling 2c; I've followed the WIntel path into IT. Basically my career has been; Support, network management, IT Management, Specialist areas (CM, integration, PM). My favourite part was IT Manager, aside from managing people which gets on my nerves. The positions weren't badly paid, but the salary is hardly stellar. Some of the best paid jobs (with the best benefits) I've seen are in IT sales (presales support, account manager, etc.), but that's *so* not my area. One of the main problems I see highlighted nowadays is that 'IT People' have no business understanding or skills. Having that (try an MBA after your course) can help you move into many areas (business analyst, software architect, project manager, DW designer, etc.), and can serve as leverage into other areas if you ever need a change. Things like 'Cisco Networking', from what I see, appear to be limited career paths. You're going to move to a niche area, and your skills will need constant updating. (Cisco people on the board - please don't flame me ...) Working with small companies is fun, I always think. There's a team spirit, and everyone pulls together. You may want to consider working for a large multinational company or consultancy if travel is your thing, though. Your sandwich year is really an ideal time to try something out, and see what other jobs are like (i.e. talk to the people you end up working with). A degree, at the end of the day, is often used just to show you can be taught to a certain degree, nowadays. (i.e. all those jobs which just say "Must have a technical degree") ... The most important thing is that you find something you like doing, and do it somewhere that doesn't suck. If you're going to spend a significant part of your life somewhere, and you've got a say in the matter, you should try to be doing something somewhere that makes you happy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schtuv Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 but in general IT is not as well paid as it was I just wish that my career advisor had suggested 'footballer' as an option. I may not like football, but for £50k a week I'm sure I could have learned to, and trained liked like a dervish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 IT is poor paid. If you HAVE to get into IT then specialise and contract depends where you are and what your doing I guess, im a database/spreadsheet developer and you can earn a small fortune in a bank.....depends what sort of life you lead as well as you probably would'nt get much of one working in a bank. Only plus side is the huge salary I did a degree in management, but ducked out after two years and left with a HND....some say I was mad, others respected my decision, I wanted to go out and earn some money.....I talked my way into Ernst & Young as an Junior IT analyst after a few temp jobs, stayed for two years and developed my skills as much as I could on access/excel, read books, looked online and taught myself as much as possible, then went onto probably britains biggest charitys, not massive salary but good enough at the moment for me, will move back into the corporate sector at some point I guess, depends if I want a bigger flat/house in my opinion as many others have said, a degree helps but certainly is not a dead cert your going to get a job, I had to talk my way into a lot of temp jobs when I came out of uni and especially my fist role, there was a fair deal of bullsh*t and blagging as always, you need to certainly be able to talk the talk if you coming to London, its very competitive, you need to be confident and firm on your veiws as well, but I guess this comes with time/experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.