Blitz Twin Turbo Installation

[mikeyb10supra]

Great write up Tony as per...cant wait to see it completed

[fishman]

great read and write up! very impressive work

[Matt H]

hope you get the performance you want Tony, you have put so much work into this its untrue! like over a year now! thats some going yeah. good luck mate, cant wait to see the final readouts from, the dyno

[TLicense]

Just been on a massive mission to change these turbine housings.

I stripped the turbo's and wastegates off on Saturday, and yesterday morning, and re-fitted them today.

I changed all the gaskets, oil fittings nuts and bolts. The whole lot.

 

Anyway, the difference between the 2 housings is a diameter reduction of 8mm on the "area" component of the A/R.

 

So I fitted the turbine housings, and was just finishing nailing it all together when Ryan arrived to map it.

 

Unfortunately the oil feed and oil return fittings on the rear turbine started leaking. The feed was an easy fix, but the return flange is going to be a difficult job. However it's not particularly bad, so we decided to go out for a quick test drive to make sure that the AFR's were good and there wasn't any det.

 

I'd also managed to somehow loose the fittings for connecting up the wastegate hoses. After hunting high and low, and unsuccessully trying to purchase some replacements from the local hose centre, we decided to run on the wastegate springs. I've adjusted the pre-load nut, so it is all the way out.

 

The net result is that I can now make some sensible boost!

We managed to make 13.5 psi of boost, although it was still quite laggy, only making it at about 5500rpm. However some of this laggyness is more than likely due to the wastegate springs gently opening as the boost comes on.

 

So the next step is to sort out the oil leak, and then get the right fittings to plumb up the boost controller. We'll then ramp up the boost.

 

Nearly - so very nearly!

[dk_supra]

Tony,

you need to tell your mapper to accelerate the exhaust gases with ignition and leaner fuelling. Otherwise you will never get quicker boost response. With this kind of housings the car should be able to have full boost at 4k, not at 5.5k. If that was the case why not putting a gt42rs on it and easier to install, cleaner and a LOT easier to service.

 

Also on the turbo and downpipes, never use gaskets. You need to take the manifolds and the turbo housing to the machine shop, and shim the surfaces. This way you WILL NEVER have a leak and you will never blow a gasket.

 

Also when you have oil leaks like the one you described, you never drive the car. OIL leak on the turbo side means FIRE, means car GAME OVER. Very amateur move. You fix the leak and then after you check you drive it.

 

my 2 cents. Believe me when i say something, i have built a few cars in the last 15 years (approx. more than 100 MKIVs). I have been through fires, engine block cracking, clutches blowing up and Getrags being torn to pieces, shafts being torn in two and being saved by the shields around the tranny. A lot of misfortunes, but i prefer to say it's experience. cheers

 

Dimitri

[TLicense]

I think it's more a problem with the wastegate opening to be honest.

It's an easy one to check (again) so we'll soon be able to sort it one way or another.

 

I agree about the oil leaks. The problem is Dimitri, this is now my one and only car. At 7pm last night it was a case of either start stripping the turbo off (not a 5 minute job, and probably leaving me with no transport to work for today) or minimise the leak as much as possible and take the car out to make sure it's not running lean so that I can get to work today.

Don't worry though, it'll be fixed before the drive home

 

The gaskets are metal multilayer jobs supplied with the kit from Blitz. I doubt very much that any reasonable machine shop will want to take on the job of producing the jigs to hold both the manifolds and the turbo's so that the mating faces can be surface ground. I don't quite understand what you mean about having them "shimmed" though? Isn't that effectively a metal "gasket"?

[dk_supra]

Let me tell you a little of history before i come to the skimming part of turbos and manifolds.

After putting a perfectly skimmed plate on every surface turbo, manifold, wastegate, we came down to the conclusion that the companies, have been skimming the products before weding them (manifolds of course). and after welding a small amount of warpage is present. That is why they give the gaskets. When we skimmed everything and we mated the surfaces with strong exhaust studs, without a gasket, we had a trouble free run for unlimited miles. After disassembly we didn't find any warpage, but with using gaskets there was always a slight warpage created, even on skimmed surfaces. I don't know why to tell you the truth.

But all the racers and the drag cars, never use gaskets on the turbos, it's a wick link. So after applying this to our cars and customers, they never worried about exhaust pressure leaks.

 

Skimming of a manifold and a turbo, is not so tricky, if you take it to a company that skimms heads, they can mount it on the machine, without making jigs etc. It takes about 4-5 passes very very thin ones to get every thing perfect and it maybe is 3-4 10the of 1mm. So the material you loose doesn't affect the strength of the turbo or the manifold at all. And on the studs side, use the longer toyota studs with one nut on top and one at the bottom , this way it will never get loose and leak. If something leaks, it's already warped big time

 

Cheers

Dimitri

[Ryan.G]

Tony,

you need to tell your mapper to accelerate the exhaust gases with ignition and leaner fuelling. Otherwise you will never get quicker boost response. With this kind of housings the car should be able to have full boost at 4k, not at 5.5k. If that was the case why not putting a gt42rs on it and easier to install, cleaner and a LOT easier to service.

Dimitri

 

 

Ignition timing and Fueling is fine Nice curved drop from 14.7:1 to 11.8:1 from 8psi up, thanks for input tho

 

Just to add more to this subject leaning the mixture out and tweaking the ignition timing creates more heat energy which allows the gases to flow faster. This is why turbo blankets are also good for lowering spool as keep the energy in the housings.

 

Ryan

[dk_supra]

Strange then, because i run on my brother's MKIV a twin HKS kit, with 3037s on, and he has full boost at 4500 rpm, and he is making 626 at the wheels at 7900rpm on pump gas and on 1.15 bars of boost. Torque is also pretty nice as we have 58kg of torque at the wheels at 4600 rpm and it climbs staight up at 66kg at 7900 rpm.

both hp, and torque curves are straight lines going up after the turbos kick in.

[Ryan.G]

Im sure its the wastegates leaking pressure dimitri as they were just left to run on the springs with no pressure aid attached.

 

Tell me about fires and oil leaks though

 

I do agree 100% on running no gaskets though and was trying to explain this to someone the other day who thought i was talking rubbish but oh well.

 

The thing is most parts that are sold the flanges are never 100% flat so i would deffo get them skimmed espically a xspower manifold

[dk_supra]

In my brother's i don't have any boost solenoid as well, only hooked up the wastegates to the lower part for signal. I have though custom made springs that activate at 1,2 bars, much much better than the HKS stuff

 

About fires, and oil leaks, don't even go there.

1st. never pcv vent on the exhaust valve cover with a small filter, when a piston blows, then the car catches on fire.

2nd. never ever an oil leak on a wrapped header or a blanket, they become soiled in oil, and they are like a torch.

3rd. Never leave the back coolant hose without protection, it bursts because of the heat, you leak coolant, it goes on the rear wheels, and if you get alive at 160mph sliding, then go play the lottery.

4th. exhaust leaks create holes on the manifold, because the heat wants to escape from somewhere, so brake lines get warmed up and you wonder why the brakes don't work or are very mushy.

5th. Charcoal canister piping and item, watch became it can become a serious bomb, at least in euro spec left hand drive cars

 

 

etc etc etc.

 

The list is long and painfull, and by now it has become a routine for us when we built a car to avoid mistake like that.

[TLicense]

Well you'll be pleased to here that after a pretty intense 4 hour's the oil leak is now sorted.

 

You're obviously very right about not driving a car with leaks, but it's difficult when it's your car to not get over-eager to run the car. I guess that's the beauty of working on someone elses car and being emotionally detached from it.

 

Anyway, slap on wrists received, and duly noted

 

Cheers,

[dk_supra]

Good job Tony, we have another project on the go that might be a little bit more interesting for you. We are currently finishing up the VTG controlling through the AEM and after the pilot controller is checked and working, we will slap the Porsche 997 VTG turbos on a Supra motor. With some luck and good manufacturing, we should be able to create the first VTG Supra ever. How about full boost 1.5 bars at 2,2krpm, and maximum torque until 8krpm???

 

Cheers

Dimitri

[Ryan.G]

Ooooo the race begins to who can do it first

 

 

 

[dk_supra]

The mounting has already started and the testing of the VTG blades through the AEM software already started.

[Guest Milton]

Strange then, because i run on my brother's MKIV a twin HKS kit, with 3037s on, and he has full boost at 4500 rpm, and he is making 626 at the wheels at 7900rpm on pump gas and on 1.15 bars of boost. Torque is also pretty nice as we have 58kg of torque at the wheels at 4600 rpm and it climbs staight up at 66kg at 7900 rpm.

both hp, and torque curves are straight lines going up after the turbos kick in.

 

this some very interesting read dk.what a/f and timing numbers was this at

[dk_supra]

afrs at 11.4-11.5 and timing at 15 degrees

[TLicense]

Dimitri,

 

Has your brother done any internal engine mods to run up to 7900rpm? This isn't usually considered safe for a stock, everyday running engine, round these parts, and if it's not stock, then it's hardly comparing apples with apples.

Still if I had anything like 75% of that, I'd be more than very happy

[TRD3000GT]

Tony,

 

Thats some patience you have.. Id have been pulling out my hair months ago! If I had seen this thread earlier Id have helped out a bit as I knew you would have issues with the tripple WOTM pump hanger and the inspection cover.

 

Also I can see you dry wrapped your heat wrap on to the pipes and you did a good job but it still never quite looks as tight as when the pros do it.

 

They never tell anyone this but you should take out all the wrap and bung it in a bucket of warm/hot water let it sit overnight and cool and in the morning fit it to the pipes. After fitting leave somewhere warm and the wrap tightens and leaves NO seams..

 

[dk_supra]

The block is completely stock only difference is that I put ARP bolts on the rods, clevite bearings, and some really different piston rings. The head is prepared by me and shimmed to perfection 0,15 the intake and 0,25 the exhaust, perfectly. The cams are 264s and the springs are from an American supplier of mine, about 270% stiffer using the stock retainers and keepers. ARP studs on the head and torqued at 86lb. The most important is the crossing of the piston rings to be done as toyota instructs, otherwise you will be loosing compression after some miles.

The engine is running on a daily use for the last 12,000km, and if you see my brother drive you will not believe your eyes. No worries whatsoever, and frequent compression tests show 160 all across, with -2 to +2 difference. No oil consumption at all.

[dk_supra]

Tony,

 

They never tell anyone this but you should take out all the wrap and bung it in a bucket of warm/hot water let it sit overnight and cool and in the morning fit it to the pipes. After fitting leave somewhere warm and the wrap tightens and leaves NO seams..

 

 

 

And then spray it with the COOL IT thermal paint to make it absolutely perfect and you will never see it deteriorate. That's how we do it. All you have to do is ask about it.

 

Cheers

Dk

[b_have]

....and some really different piston rings.The most important is the crossing of the piston rings to be done as toyota instructs, otherwise you will be loosing compression after some miles.

.

 

Could you tell us more regarding the rings?Also, unsure what you mean by "crossing"

[dk_supra]

i will look at my supplier for the brand, as far as the crossing, just look at the manual and it says everything pretty clear.

[dk_supra]

We are putting my brother's car inside the shop for the following maintenance today, and some other goodies.

 

TRD differential with new bearing and seals, with Castrol RS diff fluid

TRD strut brace

Goodridge brake lines and fluid change

New Boostlogic turbo blankets

Oil Change

Oil filter change

Boost solenoid install, and tuning at 1.5 bars

New tyres 235/35/19 front, 295/30/19 rear

inspection of every nuts and bolt on the front and rear subframe

Allignment check

Brake system complete check up

TEIN suspension check and rebuild if neccesary

HKS midpipe (he had an exhaust shop made one, but it looks like $hit)

Air filter clean up

IK24s replacement

Compression check, leakdown check and shimming check of valves.

HKS triple clutch check and retighten

Complete instrument cluster carbon kit install

HKS manifolds retighten, turbine housings retighten, wastegates retighten.

Inspect all the t-bolt clamps on the IC pipes.

 

The one year basic maintenance and some more stuff.

It should be interesting to see if at 1.5 bars, we run out of injectors on pump gas. I'm pretty sure we will, so we might reduce our target to 1.4 or 1.3. We'll see and act accordingly. Should be back on the street by mid next week, hopefully a lot faster.

[TLicense]

And then spray it with the COOL IT thermal paint to make it absolutely perfect and you will never see it deteriorate. That's how we do it. All you have to do is ask about it.

 

Cheers

Dk

 

I was specifically told by Zircotek NOT to wet the wrap. They said the reason is that it retains moisture, which then obviously boils off when the manifold get's hot, and can cause the manifold to crack.

Otherwise yes it would be much better to wet it, as it's a real MOFO to come into contact with when it's dry.