400bhp from a VVTi Tiptronic?

[Guest Saxo Boy]

First up ignore the log-in name, this is how I'm known on most forums and I sold my VTS a long time ago. I currently have a Honda S2000

 

I have the option of a p/x swap with a 1997 facelift VVTi Tiptronic Supra. I've spent hours going through the guides and search but feel I have to post.

 

My question is: what is involved in getting the above car to 400hp at the fly (more would be a bonus)? BPU seems to be the way to go but I can't figure out/learn if this can be done on VVTi and/or tiptronic without changing ecu's, etc.

 

I'd very much appreciate a list of the parts I would need, what they cost roughly and where I could get them and I'd also like advice on relevant monitoring equipment so that the car doesn't blow up. I'd like a loud and mean sounding exhaust system and I have no issue in doing the exhaust parts on the cheap but I don't want to scrimp n' save on safety.

 

My next question is: does the Supra handle well? Coming from a 1265kg S2000 which I can chuck around would the Supra feel like a floaty barge or are they quite tight through the bends.

 

Is there anything else I need to be aware of in considering one of these cars?

 

Thanks

[Thorin]

Decat, exhaust, FCD, and then raise the boost to 1.2bar... I am unsure whether the VVTI's need a restrictor ring or if you'll need to buy a boost controller. Sould be around 400BHP.

 

edit: and Supra's handle VERY well indeed.

[Markie]

400 at the fly is pea easy mate with just BPU on a VVT-i. Your almost there in standard form I think. Arnt they 370 stock?

 

The most boost to run on the stock turbos is around 1.2 BAR so a good idea would be a FCD / Boost Controller / FMIC.

 

Injectors should be fine at 1.2 BAR, though going over that you would need bigger. Also, uprated fuel pump would be a good buy too..

 

Anyways, this is what I think judging from my car, but I am sure someone will be able to clear this up for you who knows more about the engines than I.

 

Welcome by the way..

 

Ahhh yeah. Decat exhaust system. You will need a restrictor ring.

[Nic]

400hp should be possible with the mods listed by Michael, you'll also need to include a set of cooler grade plugs to the list and a boost gauge to monitor things. An A/F gauge or EGT gauge would also be advisable.

 

The Supra is a very capable handling car, provided the suspension is set up correctly. It is quite a bit heavier than the S2000, so won't feel as nibble, but the added power/torque will make up for that.

[Nic]

400 at the fly is pea easy mate with just BPU on a VVT-i. Your almost there in standard form I think. Arnt they 370 stock?

 

The VVTi is around 320hp as stock, similar to the standard 2JZGTE engine, but with a little added torque due to the variable cam.

[Nick]

Take a look at my mods on the link below, this is all you need for BPU on the VVT-i. You don't need the FMIC either if the standard intercooler is in good condition. Editied to say quite right, need the plugs too.

 

The Supra's a lot bigger and a lot heavier than the S2000, but with some good suspension (talk to Chris Wilson) you won't be disappointed.

[Thorin]

400hp should be possible with the mods listed by Michael, you'll also need to include a set of cooler grade plugs to the list and a boost gauge to monitor things. An A/F gauge or EGT gauge would also be advisable.

 

Ah yes forgot about plugs, and yeah a proper boost gauge is essential IMO. The one on the VVTI's dash is next to useless.

[Guest Saxo Boy]

and a boost gauge to monitor things. An A/F gauge or EGT gauge would also be advisable.

 

There seems to be a retangular 'slot' below the head unit in the dash - it is possible to get an electronic system that would fit in there and provide boost, A/F, EGT info (oil pressure, temp would be a bonus as well). Can you get an aftermarket boost gauge that replaces the position of the factory dash one (trying to avoid having bits sticking to the dash).

 

Are there no ECU issues with the VTTi & tiptronic gearbox set up or is it simply a case of adding said mods, resetting the ecu and off you go?

 

Also any idea on where you can buy these various parts and what sort of price they cost. What are the uk Supra tuning companies?

[Nick]

Most good electronic gauges are 60mm and won't fit in the single din slot. For a tidy install you can fit one in place of the clock, and another in the left hand drivers side air vent.

 

Some people have the A-Pilar gauge pod, but personally I find it a bit too "in your face".

[Guest Saxo Boy]

For a tidy install you can fit one in place of the clock, and another in the left hand drivers side air vent

 

I see this is what you did - what costs were involved with that? (nice car btw)(what power are you running with that set up)

 

Also, I know its a bit chav....but what about VTA dumpvalves? Are they safe on the Supra? I personally feel the car has the presence to pull a Waaaaaaaaah-Tsssssssssh off without seeming cheap or chav

[D3xt3r]

There seems to be a retangular 'slot' below the head unit in the dash - it is possible to get an electronic system that would fit in there and provide boost, A/F, EGT info (oil pressure, temp would be a bonus as well). Can you get an aftermarket boost gauge that replaces the position of the factory dash one (trying to avoid having bits sticking to the dash).

 

Are there no ECU issues with the VTTi & tiptronic gearbox set up or is it simply a case of adding said mods, resetting the ecu and off you go?

 

Also any idea on where you can buy these various parts and what sort of price they cost. What are the uk Supra tuning companies?

 

 

If you like a big of GFK work you can fit a PLX R-500 in there. It is able to display you EGT, A/F and four additional analog sensors (temp, pressure or whatever you want) also has a option for a G-Sensor for power display.

[Guest Saxo Boy]

"GFK work" ??

[Jake]

Glasfaserverstärkt = Fibre glass to us

[Thorin]

I see this is what you did - what costs were involved with that? (nice car btw)(what power are you running with that set up)

 

Also, I know its a bit chav....but what about VTA dumpvalves? Are they safe on the Supra? I personally feel the car has the presence to pull a Waaaaaaaaah-Tsssssssssh off without seeming cheap or chav

 

Just to clarify, to fit a boost gauge in place of the clock you need a 52mm gauge. I'd recommend a simple mechanical gauge, dead easy to fit.

 

...and it already has a dump valve which works perfectly fine.

[Jake]

Just to clarify, to fit a boost gauge in place of the clock you need a 52mm gauge.

It's a facelift though Michael. Only pre-facelift's have the smaller clock.

[imi]

 

Are there no ECU issues with the VTTi & tiptronic gearbox set up or is it simply a case of adding said mods, resetting the ecu and off you go?

 

Thats a good question. I am sure that the VVTI ECU is OBD2, so not sure how it will respond to mods.

 

I do know that my Honda Prelude that was also OBD2 didnt like mods and would adjust the AFR to bring them back to stock (so in fact, adding more fuel to the mixture) - this was the case with piggyback ECUs like the VAFC, etc - certainly with a stand alone one you wont have any of those issues, but then its the tiptronic box....so a whole lot of other problems.

[Thorin]

It's a facelift though Michael. Only pre-facelift's have the smaller clock.

 

I bow to your facelift owning expertise... I'd always presumed the clock was the same size.

[Pete]

Are there no ECU issues with the VTTi & tiptronic gearbox set up or is it simply a case of adding said mods, resetting the ecu and off you go?

Mine works ok.

[JustGav]

The VVTi is more difficult to work with due to its ECU difference, however it is not impossible and things can and do work.

[Guest Saxo Boy]

Pete can you give details of your BPU mods and how much they cost please - I looked at your sight but it just seems to be pics (which are cool btw).

 

My fear is that I buy this VVTi Tiptronic and then realise that if I want to get any more than 325bhp out of it I have to spend a few grand on an all singing, all dancing aftermarket ecu to allow mods and retain full tiptronic functionality. IMHO, if I was forced to spend that I'd be wanting a big return on my money (i.e. 500+bhp) which would of course vastly increase the length and cost of the mod list. On the other hand If I know I can get exahust parts for say £700, £300 for monitoring and £200 for 'contingencies' to take me to circa 400bhp then I'd probably go for it especially given that those mods are reversable and can be sold on sites such as these

 

When I had my scooby for example I got a number of bolt on's from Scoobynet 2nd hand, took my power to 275bhp for a year and then sold them all for a 15-20% loss when I was done :thumb:

[JustGav]

Pete can you give details of your BPU mods and how much they cost please - I looked at your sight but it just seems to be pics (which are cool btw).

 

My fear is that I buy this VVTi Tiptronic and then realise that if I want to get any more than 325bhp out of it I have to spend a few grand on an all singing, all dancing aftermarket ecu to allow mods and retain full tiptronic functionality. IMHO, if I was forced to spend that I'd be wanting a big return on my money (i.e. 500+bhp) which would of course vastly increase the length and cost of the mod list. On the other hand If I know I can get exahust parts for say £700, £300 for monitoring and £200 for 'contingencies' to take me to circa 400bhp then I'd probably go for it especially given that those mods are reversable and can be sold on sites such as these

 

When I had my scooby for example I got a number of bolt on's from Scoobynet 2nd hand, took my power to 275bhp for a year and then sold them all for a 15-20% loss when I was done :thumb:

 

£1200?? hmm, that is not a great deal of cash TBH......

 

As far as ECU's go that work with the tiptronic....hmmm, there isn't much out there. The ecu's are not plug and play for the VVTi (or at least I've not been able to find any)... AEM, Motec and the like require a bit of effort to get in and working and certainly won't be covered by the £1200...

 

It is a bit of a challenge, but good luck

[imi]

youre better off speaking to tuners like whifbitz or Terry (vortex) to ask for their opinion on this subject...

 

I looked into this a couple of years ago as I was in the same boat as you. My conclusion was to go for a non-VVTi 6 sp manual to keep things simple.

[Pete]

Pete can you give details of your BPU mods and how much they cost please - I looked at your site but it just seems to be pics (which are cool btw).

I've not uploaded recent pics, bit out of date.

 

Can't really remember prices - guessed.

 

Chris Wilson Decat pipes - front and rear. (£250?)

RS*R exhaust - £220 brand new lucky buy.

Thor Fuel Cut Defencer - (£80)

Colder Plugs - (£80)

AEM AFR gauge - (£180? - mkivstore special)

Blitz Mirror Drive Electronic boost controller (Nic - £120?)

1.2 bar restricter ring from ChrisW (??)

SpeedM8 speedo convertor for VVTi (£60) - tricky issue on the VVTi.

 

Think that's about it engine mod wise.

 

My fear is that I buy this VVTi Tiptronic and then realise that if I want to get any more than 325bhp out of it I have to spend a few grand on an all singing, all dancing aftermarket ecu to allow mods and retain full tiptronic functionality......

I'm going on a RR in two weeks so will know the exact figure. ChrisW has said to me that he feels VVTis seem to benefit from decats better than none vvti. That maybe just down to some cars feeling better than others anyway. I'm hoping to have achieved a realistic 380bhp.

 

That's enough for me.

 

If you want to go further than that on the VVTi then I'd buy a manual to avoid piggy back scenarios.

Mapping a VVTi is trickier than a non vvti as you'd expect, just needs more time on it. A search for VVTi on our humble site will bring up some old threads with interesting technical discussions on how it works etc. Well worth a read.

[Ewen]

I've not uploaded recent pics, bit out of date.

 

Can't really remember prices - guessed.

 

Chris Wilson Decat pipes - front and rear. (£250?)

RS*R exhaust - £220 brand new lucky buy.

Thor Fuel Cut Defencer - (£80)

Colder Plugs - (£80)

AEM AFR gauge - (£180? - mkivstore special)

Blitz Mirror Drive Electronic boost controller (Nic - £120?)

1.2 bar restricter ring from ChrisW (??)

SpeedM8 speedo convertor for VVTi (£60) - tricky issue on the VVTi.

 

Think that's about it engine mod wise.

 

 

I'm going on a RR in two weeks so will know the exact figure. ChrisW has said to me that he feels VVTis seem to benefit from decats better than none vvti. That maybe just down to some cars feeling better than others anyway. I'm hoping to have achieved a realistic 380bhp.

 

That's enough for me.

 

If you want to go further than that on the VVTi then I'd buy a manual to avoid piggy back scenarios.

Mapping a VVTi is trickier than a non vvti as you'd expect, just needs more time on it. A search for VVTi on our humble site will bring up some old threads with interesting technical discussions on how it works etc. Well worth a read.

 

I'd love to see the results on your RR session Pete.

[Pabs]

this makes for excellent reading - I was always under the impression that I'd get a newer facelift vvti engine to modify, but from this it seems like the wrong thing to do - so i'll just buy a little older and have a mod-friendly car