osso Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 :edit by admin - changed thread title at Osso's request: Yeah i thought that might get your attention! well after nearly 6 months of ownership after purchasing the soop from newera, my soop still isnt operating at 100%.. I have finally managed to take my soop up to Thor Racing today for the first time since Motormall replaced my turbos for the Second time and here are the results, i think they speak for themselves. FT/LB Torque and BHP Charts http://www.nipplewhacker.dsl.pipex.com/dyno.jpg Boost Chart http://www.nipplewhacker.dsl.pipex.com/boost.jpg Air to Fuel Ratio Chart http://www.nipplewhacker.dsl.pipex.com/airfuel.jpg I have absolutely no idea why my soop is performing so abysmally, but pete at Thor seems to be convinced that the soop is running excessively rich! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Take the cat's out and up the boost then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 http://www.megaboost.co.uk/vbb/images/smilies/noway.gif Ouch, sorry to see that - the boost certainly seems to be there but something definately isn't right How are you fixed as far as your warranty goes - is it still valid? I'd be tempted to phone Miguel and email him these results with a request for an explanation to why he's sold you an NA with non functioning turbos glued onto the block. Perhaps it's time to take Motormall out of the loop and get someone who knows what they are doing on this one at the expense of NewEra? On the plus side you are in for one heck of a lot of smiles once the car is running as it should, I'm just sorry to hear that the saga hasn't finished just yet 0.9 bar of boost.... the turbos seem happy enough anyway, I can't comment anymore because the pics suddenly seem to have stopped working, hope you get to the bottom of this one soon, could be something as simple as a dodgy sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osso Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Do a quick refresh, that should sort the problem with the pics not showing... I am very much on my own on this now, as i dont have a warranty, all the work upto now has been done as a gesture of Miguels good will. having said that he shouldnt have sold me the car in the condition as it was in the first place. however i will be sending these pictures to both Miguel and Motormall who actually did the work on replacing the turbos. from what i can see in the graph that at 4250 rpm the supra is boosting right up to 0.93bar which to me is quite high for a standard supra and i am wondering if the supra is hitting a boost cut? because if you look at the chart from 4250 and onwards you will see that the boost is fluctuating, the boost should actually be quite steady once the 2nd tubo kicks in. any thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Hi, Do you mean fuel cut? I dont think that it is fuel cut mate. If it was fuel cut then I think you would totally loose boost and lots of power and you would get a peak of power just before it happened. Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Definitely running rich there mate. Ideally you wanna be in the region of 11.0-11.5 under boost. Still a little rich but reassuringly safe. More could be gained by going a little leaner but probably not a good idea without a decent ecu and very accut#rate control over boost and afr's. Boost does tend to drop off steady towards the redline anyway, that's normal. There does seem to be a bit of a dip in your boost curve though at about 5000. Are all the vsv's working ok, no leaking hoses or anything you can test/swap out relatively easily? Have you checked all your hoses (big and small), a tiny crack could blow open under high boost and not be noticeable otherwise. If you have a look at Paul E's dyno plots his boost course holds very steady till the redline- something you can achieve with a decent boost controller. Are you running a stock exhaust and cats? 0.93 is high if this is the case. Your power is definately down, in the region of 30bhp or so (if you are stock). Add to that the fact your running slightly higher boost, really you should be making around 295-300 at the hubs. Are you running a stock ecu? If you are (and with no other piggy backs) then I'd say there is a problem somewhere producing such rich afr's - o2 or map sensor maybe? (Airflow also if you are vvti). I think you (and Pete) would have spotted fuel cut very quickly when you were at his so I wouldn't have thought that was your problem.... I think the fuelling needs addressing first, at least trying to find out why it is so rich. Fuel pump, fse or anything similar fitted? Sorry for the long reply but hope some of this helps.... Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osso Posted March 21, 2004 Author Share Posted March 21, 2004 Hi Dan, Thanks for taking the time to write the long reply, its all helpful. my main concern is the fact that the boost peaking at 0.93 bar once the second turbo spools up. as far as i am aware my supra is completely standard, running a stock exhaust and both cats. is it true that a standard and healthy supra should only peak up to around 0.85 once both turbo's have spooled up? I have updated the pics of the dyno plots so you may want to refresh your browser. Obviously there seems to be two problems here. 1) Im Running rich and 2) There's an unusual dip in the boost curve at 5000 rpm Why would my completely standard vvti supra be running this rich? could it be due to a problem with the MAP or airflow sensor? or perhaps a problem with the stock fuel regulator? As for the dip in the boost curve, Pete did two runs on the dyno and the dip occured twice in the same area at 5000 rpm.. surely if there was a crack or a leaking hose then wouldnt you expect the dip to occur before it reached 0.93 bar? I am clueless as to where i can go from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 What if there was a leak in the pressure hose system that controlled the wastegate? Thinking about it the small leak would act as a bleeder valve, and bleed off enough pressure so that the wastegate need 0.9bar to fully open instead of 0.8bar, as 0.1bar is escaping into atmosphere. The boost drop may be some sort of oscillation where the wastegate fully opens and the boost pressure drops because of this and the wastegate shuts more than it should because of this leak, and causes the trough as it re-opens again as boost builds back up. Reaching, I know The overfuelling could be due to a boost leak, where metered air escapes but the fuel still goes in. On a MAP controlled J-spec this is pretty unlikely though... -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Osso, are those results measured at the hub? Or have they been compensated to show flywheel poweer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Osso, few things to consider: 1/. smallBoost leak on a hose 2/. How does the Thor dyno read the boost, where from? 3/.You could have a knackered CAT 4/.Stock cars are always set rich 5/.Figures are at the hubs which should be significantly less than flywheel figures Bare with it as Rob Oldhams VVTi makes great power from a 3" decat and Nur Spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Indeed, I've read that the rear wheel HP conversion is around .85 giving osse approx 295BHP at the flywheel which doesn't sound too wide of the mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Originally posted by trooper Indeed, I've read that the rear wheel HP conversion is around .85 giving osse approx 295BHP at the flywheel which doesn't sound too wide of the mark. For a VVTI ??????? Dude:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osso Posted March 24, 2004 Author Share Posted March 24, 2004 The charts are based at the hub and have not been compensated to show flywheel power... I thought the power lost from the flywheel to the hub was around 20% to 25%? if thats the case then these are what i get... 25% -> 330.38 ft/lb @ 4443 317.25bhp @ 5619 20% -> 317.16 ft/lb @ 4443 304.56bhp @ 5619 which isnt too bad? Dude, are you free tomorrow? when would the best time for be to pop over and have a look at your RSR Exhaust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Im there all day but after lunch would be better !! Dude:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osso Posted March 24, 2004 Author Share Posted March 24, 2004 Sure no probs, i'll try and pop over later in the afternoon, either way i will give you a call tomo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 The ONLY way to find out for sure what power your (and my, a VVTi too) engine is producing is to remove it from the car and pop it on a bench. Drivetrain losses vary from different models by large ammounts. Your car is a manual, I would be surprised if the losses were as high as 20-25%. My car is an auto so 20-25% would be more likely. I've seen some old cars generate losses of a whapping 50% but we have a relatively modern and efficient set-up. As far as I know, nobody (except maybe Toyota themselves) has bench tested a JDM 2JZ GTE engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 I have been at Thor's when two different cars (both stock) made between 280bhp and 292bhp at the hubs. That is why i said yours was probably 30bhp or so down on power. I still say that is way too rich for a stock car, Pete must be able to comment on this after all the mkiv's he's seen on his dyno? If it were me I'd lean towards checking/swapping out a few sensors (MAP, airflow, 02) and checking every single hose for any splits or cracks. Have you checked for any ecu fault codes? Have you considered that if the old ceramic turbine disintegrated then bits of it are likely to be in the top cat? This won't be helping your boost issues. The dip in the boost curve wouldn't be my main concern, I'd look into the fuelling first. Certainly is a shame it's not running quite right though, hopefully not for long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 ANy progress on this at all mate, did you get it sorted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osso Posted August 28, 2004 Author Share Posted August 28, 2004 ever since i took the stock exhaust and cats out it has been running very well! it is pulling 10x better than it was before.. The problem could have been simply a blocked exhaust.. The second cat pipe appeared to be badly damaged once it came off the car, infact it the cat honeycomb was missing!! 1st cat was fine tho. Im going to sheerness (kent) soon to have a power run on the dyno to see what improvements i've made on the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Osso, To be super accurate I would get the dyno re-done at Thor if it were possible as dyno's do vary depending on where you go. Glad to hear it seems to have been sorted though Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osso Posted August 28, 2004 Author Share Posted August 28, 2004 I cant be bothered going all the way up to Thor for another run.. sheerness is nearer to me, and it has been given the thumbs up by Dude and his mole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.