Andrew Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I know you can get the active spoiler to stay down when you fit front mounted intercoolers, but I'd like mine to be active if possible. There is a Greddy intercooler that fits in the stock postion, are these anygood? Would adding a water injector to it, give similar effects as a large intercooler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 It sounds as if you need my uprated, all aluminium, latest type core, stock mount IC. No mods needed to the active spoiler, everything works normally. Add WI if you like, it can only help. I also do WI kits at an excellent price. E-mail me direct if you want more info, see my sig below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Go for Chris's unit over the Greddy which it is apparently worse than stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted March 8, 2004 Author Share Posted March 8, 2004 Sent you a mail Chris. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by Andrew Sent you a mail Chris. Thanks. And I have just replied, my efficiency is amazing (today...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by Chris Wilson Add WI if you like, it can only help. I also do WI kits at an excellent price. :clueless: WI ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_TC Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Water Injection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by NWS25 Water Injection. Of course! Doh. Thanks I've never liked the sound of Water Injection myself, I'm sure it's sound enough really but it just sounds wrong to me. [/ludite] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughany Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Andrew, go for the Chris Wilson SMIC, I have just had mine fitted, I will be speaking to Chris ref water injection aswell in the near future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by Jake :clueless: WI ? Water Injection, info from an article I wrote below: Water injection serves 2 closely related functions on a turbo engined car. Firstly it cools the charge air temperature by utilising an effect known as the latent heat of evaporation. This property can be self demonstrated very easily. If you pour something that evaporates quickly like petrol on your hand it feels very cold. This is the rapidly vaporising spirit removing heat from your skin and bloodstream by the aforementioned process. By spraying a very finely atomised mist of water into the inlet of a turbo engine when under boost conditions the evaporation of the water into steam causes a temperature reduction in the air and fuel intake charge. A cold charge is less likely to be subject to detonation than a hot charge. A cool charge is also denser, able to carry more air and fuel mix per unit of volume. These 2 properties of water injection allow either less chance of detonation at a given boost, maybe allowing lower octane fuel to be used, or to allow a rise in boost pressure usage without detonation. These are very desirable goals for any modifier of a turbo engine, or one using an engine mapped to run on a higher octane fuel than generally available in the UK. Japanese import turbo cars for example. People ask whether squirting water into an engine causes corrosion. In fact this is not a problem, the combustion temperatures under boost ensure the water is turned instantly to steam and is ejected out of the exhaust. The water mist is injected only when high boost is sensed via a supplied pressure sensor switch. The basic combustion process of hydrocarbon fuels causes LOTS of water to be generated anyway, which is why cars not driven on regular long journeys will rust out a mild steel exhaust system from the INSIDE out. If water is added in the correct volume, via the supplied, calibrated jets, this is not a problem. Even when used alongside a larger or more efficient intercooler, or indeed when an intercooler is used in an application where one was not present as standard, water injection can and does increase charge cooling still further. Water can be stored either in the existing windscreen washer bottle or in a separate, dedicated, container. In cold conditions it is essential to add an anti freeze additive to the water to stop pump damage through freezing. Windscreen washer additive serves this purpose fine and the engine won't mind ingesting this solution at all. Or you can add neat methanol, which is usually the anti freeze additive in washer fluid anyway. Using a 50 / 50 percent by volume water / methanol mix will actually help increase the octane of the intake charge, as an added benefit. As a yet further advantage the latent heat of evaporation of methanol is extremely high. A win / win situation. It is not however obligatory to use methanol as an additive. All components of the water injection kit that are in contact with the fluid are stainless steel or able to tolerate water and methanol or screen washer additive without degradation. A properly set up system does not use a vast amount of water, in fact a modern car sized screen washer bottle used also for the water injection reservoir will suffice admirably. A water filter is included to keep any sludge out of the pump or jet. This should be checked regularly for contamination and blown out if residue is apparent within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 If you are stiil not convinced, just remember how much better cars seem to perform on cool misty nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted March 8, 2004 Author Share Posted March 8, 2004 That was quick, thanks I'm in favour of your SMICs Chris, as ripping out a £2000 spoiler seems a bit silly to me I only ever plan to run 1.2 bar anyway. Does anyone know how good the stock intercooler is, i.e performance parts quote bhp figures, the HKS S type is good for 500bhp etc. What would the stock intercooler be good for? Or am I barking up the wrong tree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by Terminator If you are stiil not convinced, just remember how much better cars seem to perform on cool misty nights. No "seem to", a turbo car DOEs perform better witha cool dense air intake charge You'll be on commission soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by Chris Wilson Water Injection, info from an article I wrote below: . . . Very interesting Chris, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I should have said does. I remember my dad first pointing this out to me when I was a about 8 years old. One foggy night we made it up a 1 in 8 in third instead of second, in a Morris Eight, it was cold and damp and the air was dense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Hello Chris, The article says that your kits is ok with methonal as well as water so I am guessing that you do not use the ERL Aquamist kit then, could I use my AEM as the controller for your kit and where is the best place to buy methanol? On another note, the rest of my turbo kit is now in the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by Wez On another note, the rest of my turbo kit is now in the country Good news Wez, keep us updated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by Wez Hello Chris, The article says that your kits is ok with methonal as well as water so I am guessing that you do not use the ERL Aquamist kit then, could I use my AEM as the controller for your kit and where is the best place to buy methanol? On another note, the rest of my turbo kit is now in the country The ERL kit is the one I recommend as it uses a purpose made pump with adequate pressure AND flow, something most competitors fail to achieve. It's fine with methanol / water mix through it, it even states this on the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Thats good news Chris, looks like I was misinformed So its ok with a 50 / 50 methanol / water mix, how about pure methanol, just curious, I wouldn`t run pure methanol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 It should be fine with pure methanol, but i wouldn't recommend it, it makes too big a difference to the air / fuel ratio. It would be OK on a fully mapped system with the engine ecu "clever" enough to also refuel to suit when the WI was running, too. Far too complex for a road car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I was looking at the ERL System 2c to maybe do exactly that using the AEM nitrous and a spare PWM control. The AEM has the ability to switch to a modified ignition and fuel map at the flick of switch, this switch would also turn on the water / methanol or just methonal injection and also raise the boost target. The ERL System 2c also has a signal wire that could be wired to the AEM to revert back to normal boost and maps if there was a pressure drop or blockage etc. http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/sys2c/sys2c.html Would the gains not be worth the hassle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Wez: No, I think it's just added complication, you'll end up wearing 2 engines out just in mapping time if you get too complex. Pressure switch activated 1s is just fine. You would be better off spending on direct port WI like the WRC cars than a mapped system, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 OK cool What would the affect of just adding a 50 / 50 mix into my normal map have, what would the gains be without any additional mapping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 i have been thinking of 50/50 mixing too. make a seperate tank for it. can you buy ready mixed 50/50 methonol/water mix is it expensive to buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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