i-macca Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Hi all, Have had a trawl through the search and can't find definitive answers to what I'm looking for.. I've been thinking about getting an E-manage, either blue or ultimate, for my car and also getting a wideband and teaching myself some mapping (with a little help from somebody I who knows their stuff ). Thing is, I have a UK car and from what I've been reading, neither of these units will control the ignition on it? Is that right? If not, what is the reason for it not doing it? Got some more questions I was going to ask, but have forgotten them for now so will post them up when I think of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-macca Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 Somebody must be able to give me some pointers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 We have an ultimate workign jsut fine on a UK spec car. I know Dave spent alot of time with it to get it all working. Its all down to the mapper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSupra Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 isnt there an additional loom you can buy for the e manage to control ignition???? Ive also heard stories about the ultimate being a lot harder to map than the blue but dont hold me to that, im sure one of the traders on here can clear that up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Yes it is harder, but an Apexi Safc is easier than an EMB so its all relative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSupra Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 a good point well made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Well i have heard of issues with getting the timing adjustment to work on the UK and the US TT, in fact on having a look on the Supraforums it seems that a couple of the guys on here are asking the same thing, is there some kind of fundamental difference in the ignition system on the UK model? i know that it has AFM and MAP sensor but i can't see why Toyota would go out of their way to change the ignition as well? i would be interested to know just what causes the problem, i'm afraid that i can't see that its just down to mapping, as that is just a basic! everything i have heard points to compatibility/installation difficulties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Im currently researching the reasons why the emanage Blue Ignition works on JAP and USDM cars but not UK specs. The ignition components are the same from the references to wiring diagrams i have been given. What i cannot find is a genuine UK Toyota supplied 93+ ECU pinout Diagram Toyota UK have been most unhelpful here :- Though toyota Use the same Components, it could be something silly like IGT ECU pin assignment numbers not being the same, OR coilpack layout on the engine not being 123456 as the JAP and UK cars are, but rather like the VVTI 165432. this dos'nt effect firing order. but does affect which coil the igniter fires. If it fires the wrong coil the You dont get an IGF signal to the ECU - hence no start and an IGF code flagged up - apparently the outcome of Matts install?? The only diagram i can find regarding pinouts, is either the Original MKIV.com diagram or one which has been copied from it. On this diagram corrections have been made to the IGT pinouts...id like to know if this could be because the Original referred to UK spec pinouts but they differed from UDSM. I would also like to get my hands on an Original UK Toyota supplied ignition wiring diagram...so if any anybody can help...lemme know.. How many people have actually tried to use the emange ignition (apart from Matt) on the UK TT??? to eliminate the fact that Maybe Matt had a dodgey Harness, Igniter, etc etc The reason im asking is the good old chinese whispers syndrome, i was told it dosnt work so took it as gospel for all off 3mins then said, BUT WHY? if theres a will theres a way :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Ahh right so the stumbling block is the lack of a definitive UK ECU pin out diagram, i also thought the US TT had the same emanage problems? so is the VVTI pin out diagram available? and also the US? maybe it could be worked out from the colour coding (long shot i know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Mohd says it works - but he would, he sells it. Im prolly gonna do a trace from the ECU to the igniter main plug Which has 6 IGT lines in from the ECU and 6 IGC lines out to each coil, and see if the IGT-IGC relation is the same as the USDM wiring diagram. toyota have been no help and say they cant give me the UK wiring diagrams for the ignition system, or ECU pinouts, instead they send me to http://techdoc.toyota-europe.com/ where you have to pay - and guess what? they dont have the supra info online lol Is there Anybody on here that works for toyota?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Just found the VVTI ECU pin out diagram and i can see that it runs grouped igniter outputs, and the only US/UK pin out diagram seems to run individual igniter's just like the J spec, so like you say unless the order has been changed, in which case it should be relatively straight forward to trace it through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRalphMan Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Have you looked here for the pin outs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRalphMan Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Also here for the MKiv wireing diagrams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Yup, they are all sourced from The 1995 US market Manual info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-macca Posted August 19, 2006 Author Share Posted August 19, 2006 Just seen this, my reply notification didn't work for some reason From what I've read, it's not down to the mapper as to whether they work on a UK car or not. And I understand the fuelling does, just not the ignition and nobody is sure why not. As Bondango says, it may be down to Chinese whispers. I'm also not sure if this is just the Blue or the Ultimate or both? I'm very tempted to get one of the above and spend time playing with it, being able to adjust the fuelling would be great, but timing as well would be a real bonus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 I've tried both an EM Blue, and an Ultimate on two different UK cars and both cars refused to fire and showed a fault code 14. Ignitor. The only thing both cars had in common was that they were both early UK cars. Not that I can see that would make any difference. But if anyone figures it out, let me know what I did wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Matt and I have looked into this and neither of us can work out, yet, why the UK specs won't even start if the E-Manage's ignition lines are in the loop. No UK spec car we've looked at likes it and they all behave the same way (turns over but no spark). I'm pretty sure it's not the map I've had a Blue and an Ultimate otherwise working on UK specs no problem. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-macca Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 Ian, I take it you've tried to speak to Greddy about this? Or are they not to hot on the aftermarket support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Matt and I have looked into this and neither of us can work out, yet, why the UK specs won't even start if the E-Manage's ignition lines are in the loop. No UK spec car we've looked at likes it and they all behave the same way (turns over but no spark). I'm pretty sure it's not the map I've had a Blue and an Ultimate otherwise working on UK specs no problem. -Ian Ian thats why i would like a Genuine UK supplied TT wiring diagram for the early UK models and a Pinout diagram. Just to eliminate and differences between the UK and jap spec's if there are any. Early UK specs may have used different assignments to pins 52-58 for instance..Something simple like coilpack layout or igniter channel differences would cause the code 14, also a simple test to make sure IGT signals to igniter get a 5v, 12v or are to pulled ground which would mean changing the emanage Hardware setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 make sure IGT signals to igniter get a 5v, 12v or are to pulled ground which would mean changing the emanage Hardware setup. They are definitely 12v pull down. I also tried 5v as that's what's recommended on Mohds site for the US spec, but that didn't work either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Well one theory im looking at is definately ECU pinout assignments. If you look at he following, it refers to the Jspec and USDM Emanage 1 2 3 4 5 6 Channel 2JZ-GTE 1 5 3 6 2 4 firing order Control line IGT1 IGT5 IGT3 IGT6 IGT2 IGT4 Ref Igniter 1 8 3 7 2 9 Plug Pin Ecu 57 53 55 52 56 54 Pin (claimined for US) Now if for instance Coil pack layout on the Early UK's was not 1,2,3,4,5,6 but say 6,5,4,3,2,1 Then you would get a no start situation as the ECU wouldnt recieve an IGF confirmation when it first sends a Signal to the igniter, as it will be trying to fire to the wrong coilpack. If the Pinout Assigments for the IGT control lines wernt that of the Jspec and USDM you would also get this situation, as the ECU would be expecting an IGF conformation that the correct coil had sparked. But without the relevent Information its a very long process of elimination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I've fitted an ignitor pack from a JDM car to an early UK car before, and it worked straight away, so that rules the ignitor pack out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I've fitted an ignitor pack from a JDM car to an early UK car before, and it worked straight away, so that rules the ignitor pack out... coilpacks are the same to IIRC? so that leaves Coilpack layout and ECU Pin assignments and Emanage settings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrar Jabbar Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Matt and I have looked into this and neither of us can work out, yet, why the UK specs won't even start if the E-Manage's ignition lines are in the loop. No UK spec car we've looked at likes it and they all behave the same way (turns over but no spark). I'm pretty sure it's not the map I've had a Blue and an Ultimate otherwise working on UK specs no problem. -Ian This could be the reason why mine don't start (J spec car with, which I think now is a UK spec engine and loom, I think!). I originally bought the car as a non runner, blown motor which I rebuilt, the inlet manifold had the EGBV gubbins which I removed, isn't this only on UK spec cars? Sorry, no it can't be a UK loom as it didn't have the plug for the resistor pack which I had to hard wire in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Ok another bit of research today.. The following Igniter was run for the first 5 months of Production on UK cars IGNITER Part# 89621-22020 93/05 - 93/10 After that, they changed to a New igniter IGNITER Part# 86921-22030 93/10 - Now, it would be interesting to here from those running EMB ignition control on Jspecs, What is your Igniter Part number?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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