Guest richie rich Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Supragal, if there are no such things as spirits, why do so many millions of people believe in heaven and hell if there is no such thing as an afterlife. AND dejavu, how can that be explained also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupra Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I love reading stuff like this, an think myself an a mate on stag one night saw one. I think my sis has seen our dad, I was on leave not long after we lost him, an was staying with my sis an mum. My sis had been out, an when she got back in, she asked why I had moved chairs, I said I hadn't, an had been laying on the settee for an hour or so, which at first she didn't believe. You could see one chair in the house when you drove up the drive, my dad's chair, an it wasn't me who was sat there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GHOSTS AND SPIRITS Spiritualist generally agree that a ghost is a mental vibration that is imprinted in the environment. For example, scenes of tragic or emotionally charged events may carry residual mental energy of the living people whose mental energy 'charged' the scene. This vibration may be experienced by someone who may have latent clairvoyance and occasionally 'seen' as a ghost. Today some Entertainment TV programmes make a mockery of real paranormal investigation and have been proven by the sceptics to be choreographed nonsense. (See the Tony Youens website and Bad Psychics website for skeptical views.) REAL GHOSTS ARE SPIRITS Most ghost sightings are a result of a psychically sensitive person responding to the vibrations "recorded" in the environment, which they see as an apparition. This, of course, differs from the self-aware spirit of someone who is living a new life and makes themselves known to us. Powerful emotions such as fear, hate, and anger leave powerful impressions in the surroundings. Events involving grisly deaths, prolonged tragic circumstances, and drama are likely to leave behind an imprint. Therefore, a ghost is like a photographic record that is occasionally visible to sensitive people. It is seen like a film clip from the past, sometimes with the same scene repeating in the same spot. What is seen is certainly not a conscious spirit trapped in a time warp and repeating the same task for eternity. It is the energy of history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Ian, what's the series of books your reading? Sounds interesting. Rosie, bit of a more 'in depth' look at my theory: We exist in the 4th dimension; we have control (apart from obeying certain laws of physics) over the 3 dimensions of X, Y and Z. The 4th dimension is time which we are dragged along with but cannot control. Any being that inhabits a higher dimension can control time (again except for certain laws that would be imposed similar to our physical laws), and can control any other of the dimensions below! We have NO idea what the other dimensions might be, scientists can guess but that's all it is. Essentially it could be some form of energy dimension, something we know of like gravity, or something we can't even comprehend!! So imagine that the 7th dimension (example) is energy of some kind, our feeble 4th dimensional brains can't work it out or recognise it, but there is some link between our physical bodies and these 7th D energy fields!! They connect at our birth and stay together till our death, the energy is not necessarily sentient (it may be) but the fact that our brains don’t ‘get it’ means we can’t communicate with them on a conscious level anyway! ***** We can replicate a human braincell PRECISELY, so that it acts and works EXACTLY the same way as a brain cell does. It could be replaced into the brain and perform the same action as the old cell did. If we replaced ALL the cells in a human’s brain, making them essentially a completely robotic-brained person; would they still have emotion and feelings? ***** I believe this 7th D energy is at least partly responsible for our feelings, and when we die the feelings lock into a state and stay there, when another person is close and is in the same mental state and is susceptible to connection with other energies then the energies connect in some way and communicate. Who knows what they talk about! But we as 4th D beings can’t comprehend it, the only way our personal 7th D energy can inform us is by showing us something it thinks we will understand (we don’t understand it we rationalise it as a ghost). This energy is so wrapped up in our physical state it also controls part of our underlying brain power (we only use 20% of our brain or whatever it is?), we have the ability to have telekinesis and mind reading etc. we just don’t know how to harness it, this energy does and uses it under certain circumstances – one of which is a particular ‘ghost’ encounter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraStar 3000 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 would you spend the night at say,.. 25 Cromwell Street, the grisly home of Fred and Rose West and be 100% sure nothing paranormal would happen. I can't and wouldn't In cases of extreme suffering during death is it possible that the spirt can't rest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Supragal, if there are no such things as spirits, why do so many millions of people believe in heaven and hell if there is no such thing as an afterlife. AND dejavu, how can that be explained also. Because people can not and refuse to handle the fact that one day there will be nothing, they won't know anything- impossible to comprehend huh? Easier to believe in a life after death!! That as well as in the routes of religion it was used as a subtle blackmail/bribary to make people behave and do as they were told on he promise that "good people go to heaven bad people go to hell" dejavu is a chemical imbalance in the brain. You will find that people who use recreational drugs suffer with this a lot more than those who don't, those who are giving up drugs (this includes pharma drugs too as in prescribed) also get horiffic dejavu. Experienced that one first hand and it's terrifying OMG thought I was going insane!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 So you all believe in an afterlife then? Hmm. If you have no brain activity (ie dead) how can you have an afterlife, how can you be conscious of anything? If you do have an afterlife then that must mean that you are aware you are being cremated or buried. Nice. Techonolgical advances are totally different to spiritual beliefs!! yep, i belive in an afterlife - the spirit which allows a person to "exist in the pysical world" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_a Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 But physically, scientifically, how does this happen? Someone dies, their brain stop and they rot. Thats all. There is not such thing as a spirit! Else you'd get ghost worms and cats and wasps. This happens, seriously. I know of two things with ghost pets, both involve a psychic guy we worked with. To test him out we took him to a house without telling him anything about where he was going, on the way in he noticed that a picture was wrong because 'someone' told him it had been changed as the regular one had a problem with it. Turns out the picture normally there had a broken frame and because the papers were coming the owner had swapped it to make the house look nicer. Anyway, moved into living room and he said that they used to have brown tabby cat because it was still there in the room laid on the end of the sofa. He then says "it wants to show me something" and jumped through the cushions on a different sofa (obviously we couldn't see all this it was just what he was telling us) still he says "whatever it is is behind that sofa". When the owner moved it it had a wee cat shaped ornamment with the brown tabby (which had died a few months earlier) cat's ashes in it. The woman had hidden it so as not to be macabre. Note the guy had never met these people before, never seen the house and the sofa was opposite you as you walked in so it wasn't like you could see behind it as you walked in. This was within 5 minutes of being there. Some people are on a level with these things some aren't. The house owner nearly passed out! m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 That as well as in the routes of religion it was used as a subtle blackmail/bribary to make people behave and do as they were told on he promise that "good people go to heaven bad people go to hell" i really disagree with this statement - put simply, people have an "opinion" on something they have a) not studied b) have "picked up" bias from various people/events .... no opinion till you have knowledge is my take on this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Trev. Now I believe that 'time' is nothing more than a unit of measure that humans have come up with so that they can keep track of stuff. We can replicate a human braincell PRECISELY, so that it acts and works EXACTLY the same way as a brain cell does. It could be replaced into the brain and perform the same action as the old cell did. If we replaced ALL the cells in a human’s brain, making them essentially a completely robotic-brained person; would they still have emotion and feelings? I would love a scientist to do that, I wouldn't like to hazzard a guess but if it carries memories and experiences (which ultimately comtrol how we react/emote) then yes. Hmm, actually, yes. maybe. Think about people with brain damage who have physically lost pieces of their brain- they have no memory of the stuff stored in the bits they lost. Therefore brain dies=nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_a Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Flip side SupraGal, if we are just chemical reactions etc, how did it happen? all the materials to make us are all around us, how come life doesn't just exist with new people, new animals being created all the time? Agreed on a large part of religion though, it was invented as a way to explain what we couldn't but to control people and make them good? Who tells us that? How do you know what is right and what is wrong? Can a chemical reaction be capable of that or is there something more? How did we decide what was right? m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Trev. Now I believe that 'time' is nothing more than a unit of measure that humans have come up with so that they can keep track of stuff. True, but it still happens, it still moves along regardless of how long your minute is! Hmm, actually, yes. maybe. Think about people with brain damage who have physically lost pieces of their brain- they have no memory of the stuff stored in the bits they lost. Therefore brain dies=nothing. Memory maybe, what about emotion? Actually they think now it's controlled by the heart, there are brain-cell type cells on the heart, and people that had heart transplants sometimes start doing things that the donor would have done (like playing classical music!!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Flip side SupraGal, if we are just chemical reactions etc, how did it happen? all the materials to make us are all around us, how come life doesn't just exist with new people, new animals being created all the time? Agreed on a large part of religion though, it was invented as a way to explain what we couldn't but to control people and make them good? Who tells us that? How do you know what is right and what is wrong? Can a chemical reaction be capable of that or is there something more? How did we decide what was right? m. oh thats an easy one - chemical reactions created logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey76364 Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 See i belive in ghosts ect but dont belive in heaven and hell... so im a little messed up. But then I am convinced I have seen a UFO too but thats taking it to yet another leval !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey76364 Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Ive got loads more stories of what has happened at my work but it would take all day to post them all. I want to come to your work one evening and do a shift with you see what its like !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I think my theory will eventually be the link made between religion and science. Maybe our creator (I hate calling it a God as that has so many strange ideals linked with it) is a 9th dimension being, decided to make something funky for a school science project (obviously I’m bringing in a 4th D analogy to rationalise something we can’t comprehend) and within one evening made the universe, grew it for a few billion millennia then decided to switch it off! We can program 4 simple laws into a computer and get pixels to move and grow/die almost as if it’s a living being!!! Imagine inputting all the laws of physics and nature into a computer, adding some starting variables and hitting ‘run’ – BIG BANG and whammo there’s the universe (or M-theory multiverse if you so wish). This thought brings about implications for the aethiests because a 9th D being has control over our 7th D energies (or souls?), heaven and hell anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey76364 Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 I think my theory will eventually be the link made between religion and science. Maybe our creator (I hate calling it a God as that has so many strange ideals linked with it) is a 9th dimension being, decided to make something funky for a school science project (obviously I’m bringing in a 4th D analogy to rationalise something we can’t comprehend) and within one evening made the universe, grew it for a few billion millennia then decided to switch it off! We can program 4 simple laws into a computer and get pixels to move and grow/die almost as if it’s a living being!!! Imagine inputting all the laws of physics and nature into a computer, adding some starting variables and hitting ‘run’ – BIG BANG and whammo there’s the universe (or M-theory multiverse if you so wish). This thought brings about implications for the aethiests because a 9th D being has control over our 7th D energies (or souls?), heaven and hell anyone? Cant take much more of this lol..... too in depth for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupra Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 But then I am convinced I have seen a UFO too but thats taking it to yet another leval !!! Another level it may be, but I know some RAF pilots that have said the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 i really disagree with this statement - put simply, people have an "opinion" on something they have a) not studied b) have "picked up" bias from various people/events .... no opinion till you have knowledge is my take on this! I did say "as well as" and referred to histoical things- not present day so much. I have studied it in a small amount as I went to a catholic school. My sister, following a severe head trauma is highly religious, she can't even explain why but chances are she can't explain how she escaped death (which was the only probably outcome if viewed logically) so needed some kind of answer. That and now she can't work etc she has nothing else to do with her time than to go to church and groups etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonW Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 But then I am convinced I have seen a UFO too but thats taking it to yet another leval !!! Me too, It was definitely a UFO, not saying it was alien but it was unidentified and seen by several people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edd_t Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 blimey this thread is an intresting read did someone mention de'javu??? has happend to me many times, and everytime is spot on. its very freaky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonW Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Here's an interesting article on Deja vu http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5194382.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Can we avoid dragging religion into this please, given the choice between God and Ghosts I know which is more plausible I don't believe emotions can leave an imprint on stuff, that's a bit hollywood. I can comprehend an energy level beyond what we can ken, that's proper science that is The books are by Peter F Hamilton, er, it's a trilogy and I can't recall the name of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Flip side SupraGal, if we are just chemical reactions etc, how did it happen? all the materials to make us are all around us, how come life doesn't just exist with new people, new animals being created all the time? Agreed on a large part of religion though, it was invented as a way to explain what we couldn't but to control people and make them good? Who tells us that? How do you know what is right and what is wrong? Can a chemical reaction be capable of that or is there something more? How did we decide what was right? m. Evolution. Nature is how it all happened, I wasn't there when it happened so no-one can possibly know for sure. It's all amazingly clever for sure though. IMHO it wasn't a little man sat on a cloud creating the world in 7 days!!! I have no issue with people who want to believe but personally I do not. Right and wrong is society- society is based on original religious beliefs. Thats why animals kill each other with no remorse because they are not brought up to, and do not have the same level of intelligence as humans. That was something I was taught in RE, that historically people were punished for not following their "religion/law" the two went hand in hand. Please no-one take offence at any of this I'm just chatting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Here's an interesting article on Deja vu http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5194382.stm Very good article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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