TLicense Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Not only check the hoses for splits etc. but also check the clips to make sure they are still clamping the hoses onto the pipes. My hoses had gone hard and brittle so the clamps we're not doing sod all. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Just a thought - tie open the EGBV. This will slow down turbo 1's spool but also guarantee that #2 will be prespooled by 4000rpm when it comes onstream. If that clears up your late/nonexistent #2 boost, then it's deffo something to do with the EGBV not opening. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Thanks for the info guys. Ill try Mr.C's blowing technique first on a few pipes, then Ill go about tkaing VSV's off, and checking resistance readings. If not, then Ill have to start to take bits off,until I can reach the VSV's at the rear. (non relavent)Do jspec have a VSV for fuel pressure? As, I think the US/UK ones do, just didnt see it on the Jspec? How do I go about checking, that the wastgate(pre-spool device) is operating correctly? Thanks Wish me luck! U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Originally posted by Usmann A Thanks for the info guys. Ill try Mr.C's blowing technique first on a few pipes, then Ill go about tkaing VSV's off, and checking resistance readings. If not, then Ill have to start to take bits off,until I can reach the VSV's at the rear. (non relavent)Do jspec have a VSV for fuel pressure? As, I think the US/UK ones do, just didnt see it on the Jspec? How do I go about checking, that the wastgate(pre-spool device) is operating correctly? Thanks Wish me luck! U The VSVs are all reachable with no dismantling really required, don't confuse them with the actuators I don't know about a fuel pressure VSV, I haven't come across one in my travels yet but there may be such a beast. See if it's on the ECU wiring diagram anywhere. The prespool device is the exhaust gas bypass valve (EGBV). I make that definition because there is a wastegate as well (of course). It would be easier to test if you had a permanent problem, but you can test it by disabling it and seeing if it replicates the symptoms you are seeing intermittently already, or if something different happens. I think you can disable it by unplugging the wire off it's VSV (the one nearest the brake fluid reservoir, amazingly easy to get at) (assuming right hand drive that is). You'll have to unplug the wire and then try to blow through the VSV as I don't know if it defaults to open or shut. If it's open, the EGCV will be disabled on disconnection. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Originally posted by TLicense I know CW does not recommend silicon hoses, Regards Why not? Mine seem to be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 It's not the actual business of being a hose, it's the longevity and durability he questions. I've got some right cheap and nasty silicon hoses on and they haven't caused a problem yet (unlike stock ones ) but I bought them figuring if they gave me any shit I'd chop them out for stock ones again. If they get a nick, they tend to split bigtime apparently. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I have just checked two VSV's, the VSV for the IACV, that is working well, good continuity aswell, also Exhuast Gas bypass valve VSV, it works well also. I havent checed the Wastegate VSV and the EGCV VSV yet, the feed for the EGCV vsv is ok, also the pipe out too the EGCV acuator is ok aswell, same with the wastegate VSV pipes, all seems to be in good nick. My question is that if all the VSV's work fine, then would the culprit most likely be the EGCV actuator or the mechanicals of the valve itself? All the pipes to and from the pressure tank seem to be ok. How does the EGBV vsv acutally contribute,my understanding of its purpose it pretty vauge, as there are no pipes connecting to the VSV itself, just a electrical signal? Regarding the Fuel pressure VSV, yes there is one, on the inside of the plenum, I have seen it on a US car, but cannot compare to a UK, as havent had a look at one properly. Last night, there was no second turbo at all when accelerating, but when crusing on around the 2nd turbo cut in territory, it came online, but evenso not properly. I checked the BG, and turbo one does .5bar until it peaks at 1 bar, then goes to 1.4 when 2nd turbo does decide to come online. EGBV vsv should be shut on default, when power supplied air travels from one port to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Originally posted by Usmann A How does the EGBV vsv acutally contribute,my understanding of its purpose it pretty vauge, as there are no pipes connecting to the VSV itself, just a electrical signal? Here is a piccy of the EGBV VSV, it had better have hoses on otherwise you may have found your problem http://www.mkivsupra.net/resources/turbopipes/images/turbo_gubbins_rear.jpg Regarding the Fuel pressure VSV, yes there is one, on the inside of the plenum, I have seen it on a US car, but cannot compare to a UK, as havent had a look at one properly. Righto. I haven't seen on in my travels yet but I've only really looked at j-specs up close. If it's on the US spec chances are it'll be on the UK spec. I checked the BG, and turbo one does .5bar until it peaks at 1 bar, then goes to 1.4 when 2nd turbo does decide to come online. When you say peaks at 1bar, does it sit at 0.5bar until say 3500/4000rpm and suddenly spike or what? Rough rpm values would be good EGBV vsv should be shut on default, when power supplied air travels from one port to another. Not sure what you mean there. If the EGBV VSV is shut it will allow boost pressure to build up in the EGBV actuator and open the valve... -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 When you say peaks at 1bar, does it sit at 0.5bar until say 3500/4000rpm and suddenly spike or what? Rough rpm values would be good Turbo 1 holds .5bar un until, around the 4000rpm switchover area it goes upto 1bar, then if no.2 comes online at around 5500rpm to 1.4 bar. Not sure what you mean there. If the EGBV VSV is shut it will allow boost pressure to build up in the EGBV actuator and open the valve... When there is no current going to the EGBV their is no airflow beteween the pressure in, and pressure out ports? But when voltage is supplied there should be arifolw from one to another? Let me go in the garage and doulbe check this? Here is a piccy of the EGBV VSV, it had better have hoses on otherwise you may have found your problem Doesnt matter about whether its open or not! I have no hoses to the EGBV vsv!!!!! I dont understand it has been running ok since we got the hybrids put on. The pressure in and out pipes that should go into the EGBV VSV are just connected together?!!? HELP. I can do pics if you want Ian But someone has to host them. U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Ok, I have a JPS one peice downpipe? This should not affect the EGBV should it, maybe the EGCV? I assumed that the EGBV dumped boost into the discharge of no.1? From my understanding, that the EGBV is a prespool device?Located before no.2? And the EGCV is in the discharge of no.2?Letting Exhaust gases out, when both are online? I presume, the EGBV is bypassing the boost from no.2 under 4000rpm, then around transition point the EGCV begins to open and turn the turbine, the IACV also opens allowing no.2 to cosume air. at the same time closing the EGBV so no.2 is online? I know have missed out acuators and VSVs, but I am trying to simplify it down, to understand which valve opens first? Eventhough, WHY IS MY EGBV VSV not connected?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Originally posted by Usmann A Ok, I have a JPS one peice downpipe? This should not affect the EGBV should it, maybe the EGCV? I assumed that the EGBV dumped boost into the discharge of no.1? From my understanding, that the EGBV is a prespool device?Located before no.2? And the EGCV is in the discharge of no.2?Letting Exhaust gases out, when both are online? I presume, the EGBV is bypassing the boost from no.2 under 4000rpm, then around transition point the EGCV begins to open and turn the turbine, the IACV also opens allowing no.2 to cosume air. at the same time closing the EGBV so no.2 is online? I know have missed out acuators and VSVs, but I am trying to simplify it down, to understand which valve opens first? Eventhough, WHY IS MY EGBV VSV not connected?? Get a picture or two of your engine around this area first, and you can upload them to the BBS without hosting, it just means people have to click on the link to view them and you can only do one picture per post. I'm not going to theorise on this until I've seen the bizarre-sounding setup you have there... The EGBV opens the exit of turbo 2's exhaust side into the exhaust flow of turbo 1, allowing exhaust flow through #2 to start it spinning up. This also doubles up as a wastegate effect for #1. Any boost presure generated by #2 while it spins up vents into the intake stream through a one-way reed valve under the IACV. When #2 is brought online, the EGCV opens allowing full flow through #2, and the IACV opens to allow it's boost to fully join the intake stream. At this point it doesn't matter jack what the EGBV is up to. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 The EGBV opens the exit of turbo 2's exhaust side into the exhaust flow of turbo 1, allowing exhaust flow through #2 to start it spinning up. This also doubles up as a wastegate effect for #1. Any boost presure generated by #2 while it spins up vents into the intake stream through a one-way reed valve under the IACV. Thank you for that Ian! When #2 is brought online, the EGCV opens allowing full flow through #2, and the IACV opens to allow it's boost to fully join the intake stream. At this point it doesn't matter jack what the EGBV is up to. And that! Get a picture or two of your engine around this area first, and you can upload them to the BBS without hosting, it just means people have to click on the link to view them and you can only do one picture per post. I'm not going to theorise on this until I've seen the bizarre-sounding setup you have there... I have taken pics already! Ian ,I have tried to upload the buggers, they take absolutely ages, I have even treid to resize one, but it still wont? Here goes again ... noo says file is too big! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Here is the link? http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/view.html?url=http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid105/p93f5062d358e1411beedb80749e292d3/f97ffe04.jpg.orig.jpg&caption=picture%20010&id=4185914884 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Anyone ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Hold yer horses, I have a non-running Supra to be looking at too y'know That photo is bloody huge no wonder it wouldn't upload Anyway, holy shit dude, that VSV isn't plumbed in. I know you said it wasn't but it was hard to believe without the picture. Your bypass valve will never actuate, the pressure going to it gets fed straight back into the induction system and never gets to build up behind the actuator. That means your number two turbo is never prespooled, so if it's brought onstream while you are booting it, all kinds of backfeeding nastiness will occur (see discussion of this vs easing up the rev range earlier in the thread) Who did that hose butchery then?! Does the VSV work? If so, can you plumb it in like in the photo I showed you and see what happens? -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I believe that Branners has his done like this too - as it brings on the 2nd turbo earlier? Could be wrong - probably am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Cant do, as have had it on thor before, and turbo 2 cameon at 4000rpm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Originally posted by Paul E I believe that Branners has his done like this too - as it brings on the 2nd turbo earlier? Could be wrong - probably am! The UK specs 2nd turbo comes on line a little later than an import so I couldnt stop that, but what Leon did was allow me to boost to 1bar on the first turbo but pulling a couple of hoses and rerouting the hose work. Seems to help quite a bit. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 I wouldn't like to be boosting to 1 bar on turbo 1. Any time I've had it happen I've felt power drop off, be it through massive loss of efficiency by overheating the air or that plus the timing getting retarded. Usmann, for diagnostic purposes, just plumb in the hoses the stock way and see if it clears up the problem or not. You can always go back to that setup if you want. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardharmon Posted March 6, 2004 Author Share Posted March 6, 2004 Well, I took all the hoses off and behold the hose that goes from the EGCV VSV to the actuator had a hole in it, it wasn’t visible until I took the hose off and stretched it about. Anyway I’ve given it a thorough road test and it seems to be working fine now, yay! Thanks to everyone who helped on this matter, finding out where all the pipes go has been quite useful I think, much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Originally posted by richardharmon Well, I took all the hoses off and behold the hose that goes from the EGCV VSV to the actuator had a hole in it, it wasn’t visible until I took the hose off and stretched it about. Anyway I’ve given it a thorough road test and it seems to be working fine now, yay! Thanks to everyone who helped on this matter, finding out where all the pipes go has been quite useful I think, much appreciated! Not a bad guies then? "I suspect EGBV problems myself. Either the actuator is faulty or the flap valve itself is seizing. Just a gut feeling... If anyone has a Mityvac they could test this, or even a pressure gauge (old boost gauge) plumbed as a T into the EGBV feed line would be interesting." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Resurrecting this thread, after Matt let me drive his Supra on Sunday, he appears to have a problem with number one turbo, it takes aaaages to get up to any sort of boost level. now, I'm assuming the boost gauge is T'd into the same line that feeds the stock MAP sensor, so I'd say there was a pressure leak or the EGBV was permanently stuck open. Every time I booted it the sequential system worked OK though, much to Matt's chagrin. On thinking about it though, Matt, you should try booting it in 2nd from 2000rpm and then from 3000rpm, see if the 3000rpm one manifests the problem and the 2000rpm one doesn't. Let me know what you find out... -Ian PS Chris, the EGCV isn't the same as the EGBV so it was a rubbish guess /runs away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nicksri Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Let me guess. The 2nd turbo won't come online for the first time you stick your foot down, but is fine after that... The same fault happens again, if you take it easy for about 5 minutes... Also, if you stop the engine and re-start, the 2nd turbo won't come in again in first gear, but is fine afterwards... Until you start to take it easy again... Or, you can stick your foot down to overtake, the 2nd turbo doesn't come on line, remove your foot, then floor it again, and the 2nd comes in! How close am I so far??? Have you ever figured out what happened? I posted my similar problem in my thread "pressure tank problem" where I did not have the second turbo kicking in on sequential operation. TTC works fine though. I already tested the sequential operation to ensure that EGCV and IACV open at around 4k rpm. I do not know how wide they opened though. The EBV should also open because I tried disconnecting the hose that goes from the #1 turbo compressor housing to the wastegate and plugged it and the boost is still under control at around 0.7 bar. When I kept the hose from the #1 turbo compressor housing disconnected and plugged and disconnected the hose that feed the pressure tank and EBV and plugged (WG, EBV, EGCV, IACV all closed), the boost went over 1 bar and kept getting higher as rpm increased. I did not go over 3,500 rpm as the pressure went very high. I also tried running on #1 turbo only by disconnecting the hose that feed the pressure tank and EBV to make sure that they were all closed. I took the pressure reading from the hose between the compressor housing and the WG and I got a spike to 0.9 bar and dropped to 0.65 bar when the WG VSV was pulsed shut until 6500 rpm. I then took the pressure reading from the line that feed the pressure tank and I got a spike to 0.9 bar and dropped to 0.65 bar and later to 0.4 bar at high rpm. What I do not understand is that why my boost pressure went from 0.7 bar at low rpm to 4K rpm and then dropped to around 0.2 bar when EGCV and IACV opened until 6500 rpm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Sorry mate, couldnt be arsed to read the whole thread. This sounds like exactly the same problem as i had. i think it was something to do with the stock dump valve or the actuator (spelt wrong cause i dont know what it is) Best thing to do is to ring Mark at pheonix and ask him what the problem with jons car was. He will help you out! Number is in terry s sig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonto_HAS_soop Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 A quick question for all of those that suffer/have suffered from this affliction. How many of you have have disconnected/unplugged/unfused/removed fully the standard traction control unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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