Guest welformed Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Why is the TT supra so called, when really it's a Bi-turbo not a Twin turbo? With a twin I'd expect two turbos of the same size sucking in twice as much air as one. Not to have a small turbo that spools up quick to give you some power then another fatter turbo to spool up later to give you proper power. It's just cheeky marketing really isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Restorer Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 They're both the same size! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 As already said, both, turbos are the same size. The sequential system is very complicated, but basically allows the first turbo to feed from all cylinders and spool up quickly to help drivability. The second turbo, (hence, TWIN!), then comes in at 4krpm to have both, (TWIN), turbos running in paralell to make maximum power with as little lag as possible. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKIVDreamer Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 bi-turbos typically do not run sequentially, and usually are set up with one turbo off one half of the cylinders, the other off the other half, in this arrangement the turbos also have to be the same size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Why is the TT supra so called, when really it's a Bi-turbo not a Twin turbo? With a twin I'd expect two turbos of the same size sucking in twice as much air as one. Not to have a small turbo that spools up quick to give you some power then another fatter turbo to spool up later to give you proper power. It's just cheeky marketing really isn't it? so what makes it a bi-turbo ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Rob_ Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 showing 2 stock turbines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffvalenti Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Looking for a sub 13sec rwd fun car. Your job is to convince me it's a Supra... No mate, my job is to convince you it's a Griffith If you want a (very) quick, reliable comfortable daily driver, that will anhialate 99% of the competition then get a Supra. If you're purely looking for a fun car, then it's got to be the Griff. If you can have only one, then Supra, no contest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 The title of this thread attempts to answer the 'question'. Based on a false premise (small & large turbos) It's just cheeky posting really isn't it? Anyway, welcome to the board Uninformed:d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Anyway, welcome to the board Uninformed:d PMSL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest welformed Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Well I now be well-informed! (still finding out stuff about Supras and the post was deliberately cheeky) If you want a (very) quick, reliable comfortable daily driver, that will anhialate 99% of the competition then get a Supra. If you're purely looking for a fun car, then it's got to be the Griff. Annihilating 99% of the competition is fun... Had a steer from the rear fun car in the form of a 2hundy. I don't need another one! I had read that the two turbos cut in at different revs - what about 2.5-3Krpm and 4Krpm. That's very bi-turbo operation. I thought the TT Supra might have a big and small turbo for this operation (say, like the 2.7 litre Audi S4) and the boost is set so that they cut in at different revs. Now I know both turbos are the same size. Ta. So I take it they're both set to reach the same boost? How does one cut in before the other? Just down to the ECU? And why would some want to swap 2 turbos for one even bigger one? Surely the two smaller turbos can move just as much air with a lot less lag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loks Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Now here's the question for this thread then. Has anyone actually fitted dissimilar sized turbo's to a Supra? If not why not? We have sequential, parallel, hybrid twins, and single turbo's of different sizes. Why not have a b******d great big turbo twinned up with a fairly small one to get you off the line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Now here's the question for this thread then. Has anyone actually fitted dissimilar sized turbo's to a Supra? If not why not? We have sequential, parallel, hybrid twins, and single turbo's of different sizes. Why not have a b******d great big turbo twinned up with a fairly small one to get you off the line? Boost ballancing. YOu woudl have to sun them sequential, but then take the smaller one OFF line after 4k for arguments sake. Mig, DB and I posted a thread about it recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 It's ecu controlled. Both turbos are the same. Two small turbos are replaced with a big one or big twins if you want over 450BHP. Two small turbo's will out flow at low rpm's but get out powered higher up the rev range. I'd really suggest you do some reading of proper books to dispell some of your myths. Turbochargers by Corky Bell, Street Turbocharging and others like it will help you understand the basics. Please also have a look through the Technical FAQ section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loks Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Boost ballancing. YOu woudl have to sun them sequential, but then take the smaller one OFF line after 4k for arguments sake. Mig, DB and I posted a thread about it recently. Thanks Martin, can you point me in the direction of that thread? It's got me thinking that's all... and besides I'm bored at work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Id only be searching the same as you could sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loks Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Id only be searching the same as you could sir. Well I'm on page 10 of your last posts and still can't find it... besides I'm bored again, I think I'll go and do some work again I'll dig around tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Whimp! http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=70241 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loks Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Whimp! http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=70241 Why thank you kind sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Well I now be well-informed! (still finding out stuff about Supras and the post was deliberately cheeky) I have a thorough explanation of the Supra's sequential system on my website. Proceed at your peril. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Whimp! http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=70241 I think this thread was MUCH more interesting: http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=32686 And more relevant to this subject? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest welformed Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Ah cheers for that link. Good read. So I'd name the Supra's turbo system as a Sequential Twin Turbo, not a true Twin Turbo - as in two independent exhaust systems feeding the turbos that happen to flow air at the same time. Though that would just confuse the fools with the money. Sounds quite elegant actually and being a techie, the EGCV and AICV reminds me of the genius of the RS-flipflop. The moment (and variations) that enables modern made computers able to store programs and data... But that's boring next to cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest welformed Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 This raises the question though that if the turbos can run 0.8bar of boost as standard, then surely you can get them to run a potential total of 1.6bar inlet manifold pressure and not be overstressing the turbos (fueling/cooling permitted etc) albeit probably getting a boost drop off toward the redline? Yet I see reports of not to run more than 1.2bar boost as a guideline? Is it just not worth the risk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffvalenti Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I'm sure there's an explanation about this somewhere on the site but I'll try my best 2 points 1) 1.6 bar, if acheivable, would soon see the disintegration (literally) of J-spec ceramic turbos 2) 0.8 bar at 4000 rpm requires a hell of a lot less airflow than 0.8 bar at 6500 rpm. This is why it's so confusing to quote a turbo's output in bar, without referencing it to the engine speed. Basically when both turbos are online, their combined output is 0.8 bar @6000 rpm or so. They will provide up to 1.2+ bar but very quickly get away from their optimum operating range at that kind of airflow requirement. This is why when people do the True Twin Conversion, they see high boost spikes lower down the rev range because both turbos are online, but the airflow requirement of the engine is less at lower rpm's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezz Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 This raises the question though that if the turbos can run 0.8bar of boost as standard, then surely you can get them to run a potential total of 1.6bar inlet manifold pressure and not be overstressing the turbos (fueling/cooling permitted etc) albeit probably getting a boost drop off toward the redline? Yet I see reports of not to run more than 1.2bar boost as a guideline? Is it just not worth the risk? Past 1.2 bar the standard j-spec turbos will self destruct due to ceramic fins, and the uk turbos arent very efficiant past 1.2. Hence when de-catting, a restrictor ring is used in the exhaust to keep the boost below that figure. If you want more than 1.2 you need to be thinking bigger tubbies in true twin form or a single conversion. Edit:too slow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need4Speed Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 In France it's called the Supra Bi-Turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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