Scoboblio Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 GrahamC, my comments were not a dig at your selection for your single conversion, sounds like you're doing things thouroughly What I'm questioning is the idea that a decent well set up T61 will cost around 10k.... obviously it can be done for a lot cheaper if you're willing to sacrafice a few of the nice-to-haves. Good luck with the work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 GrahamC, my comments were not a dig at your selection for your single conversion, sounds like you're doing things thouroughly What I'm questioning is the idea that a decent well set up T61 will cost around 10k.... obviously it can be done for a lot cheaper if you're willing to sacrafice a few of the nice-to-haves. Good luck with the work Mate, never saw it as a dig at the way I am doing things. The way I am doing it, is the minimum that I would accept. Should mean that everything will be well within its limits, and all the additionals needed will be done upfront. It all comes down to personal requirements! I require a lot, others might not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Good Choice, Just keep on digging, going single can be the best or worst Experience you can have with the supe, it can all go so wrong quite easily, hitch a ride with a few single boys on here, both auto and maunal and get a feel of what its like, its not about the xxBHP or the size of the turbo, its all about how it drives, and how it pulls a smile on your face when you come on boost lol and that TBH can only come from excellent mapping and tunning due to an excellent setup. Choose wisely and ask lots of questions and even speak to people who have gone single and ask for any advice. Good luck bud Got a drive in a single lined up for this weekend, strangely enough, with Matt Harwood. At the end of the day, I want something that is good on the road and the track, and where ever else I take it. Spending a lot of time looking into the parts that buy, and everything else that goes onto my car. Been asking loads of questions as well... Thanks! :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Got a drive in a single lined up for this weekend, strangely enough, with Matt Harwood. At the end of the day, I want something that is good on the road and the track, and where ever else I take it. Spending a lot of time looking into the parts that buy, and everything else that goes onto my car. Been asking loads of questions as well... Thanks! :D :D Good Choice, but Matt has a T67, maybe consider it? unless your Auto then T61 is your best bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 470 on standard twins?? Thats way past its efficiency as the turbos would need to be running 1.4 Bar+ to even come close to that sort of power,either he had Hybrids or the Dyno was a tad too generous;) well you can call Thors hub dyno generous if you like and the 11.9 second quarter the car does now down the strip as generous as well if you like. That car was damned fast and is still capable of a few more surprises, one of which was Pete's face when I told him it had stock J-Spec tubbies in it. I guess its like expensive stereo kit, match the stuff together right and she'll sound sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 well you can call Thors hub dyno generous if you like and the 11.9 second quarter the car does now down the strip as generous as well if you like. That car was damned fast and is still capable of a few more surprises, one of which was Pete's face when I told him it had stock J-Spec tubbies in it. I guess its like expensive stereo kit, match the stuff together right and she'll sound sweet. I didnt say 11.9 is not possible for a healthy BPU with a good driver now did I? Just saying that i find it hard to believe that stock J Spec tubbies can produce 470BHP, unless they were running at 1.4Bar+ plus with no problems and the engine was happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Well that just goes to show the level of BS you can listen to mate. A stock J-spec TT setup will never in a million years produce any power at 1.4 bar. Its a bloody myth that turbo's produce more power the higher you turn them up.Individual turbo's have their own power limits. In the case of J-spec turbo's its 1.2 bar. In the case of my J-spec it was 1.15 bar. Read up the gen for a bit and see what I mean. Look at any dyno graph after 1.2 bar J-spec tubbies start to produce a significant amount of heat and the power starts to tail off in a big way. Its the heat that does the damage, primarily causing detonation in the cylinders and secondarily excessive wear in turbo's as cooling is inneffective and lubricants become too viscous to perform efficiently. In short yes 450 ish is available on stock tubbies if you start by replacing the items you would to go single ie Decat, decent exhaust, decent intercooler (be that FMIC or uprated SMIC), a fuel controller (for bigger injectors future proofing), uprated fuel pump (many choose walbro), FSE (some rtae these some dont), a decent boost controller (however my figures were produced on stock boost controller), and IMHO water injection. When you know you have no det problems bang in some good sparks. Oh and some damn good cams (mine had HKS 264 in and out) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 I know you cant run them at 1.4Bar mate, it was sarcasm! The cams you have will surely help a bit and the FMIC, and your saying your running it at 1.2 Bar, If your really getting 470BHP then well done to you mate, cus your the only BPU with stocks pushing that power, must be your setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 I know you cant run them at 1.4Bar mate, it was sarcasm! The cams you have will surely help a bit and the FMIC, and your saying your running it at 1.2 Bar, If your really getting 470BHP then well done to you mate, cus your the only BPU with stocks pushing that power, must be your setup. Agreed! We have been talking about 450 rwhp... Which on the standard turbos, is highly doubtful, I dont think it will come close. Once my car has had its engine build, I will see what it is running, as it will be stock JSpec turbos, full fueling system, 3 row intercooler, water injection, decat, induction, 264 cams, boost controller, greddy ultimate... I think that I might be able to 400rwhp if I am lucky... 1/4 mile times are down to driver, tyres, outside conditions (weather), etc. Yeah I know his car is T67, havent decided on what turbo kit yet... I have a 6sp manual. I want something that is everyday driveable! Even though I will not be doing that many miles in the car. I am actually looking at the DBB turbos, for the faster spool and added drivability (especially after having seen all of IanCs data, very interesting, and especially since he will be doing the mapping ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Yeah I know his car is T67, havent decided on what turbo kit yet... I have a 6sp manual. I want something that is everyday driveable! Even though I will not be doing that many miles in the car. I am actually looking at the DBB turbos, for the faster spool and added drivability (especially after having seen all of IanCs data, very interesting, and especially since he will be doing the mapping ). Ian C's Set up is the one im going for aswell, But no DBB, for me the extra cost (more labour intensive), does not warrant the need for the boost to come in any sooner than non DBB, if i was auto then it'd be a different story But with the 6 Speed its not really an issue, you can stay within the power band with ease once your going. I have been driving in TTC with both tubbies comming online at 4k RPM and am quite comfortable with the late boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Well that just goes to show the level of BS you can listen to mate. A stock J-spec TT setup will never in a million years produce any power at 1.4 bar This is only partialy true mate, with a correctly setup J-spec with race fuel or water injection/meth spray you could theoretically run the turbos at this level, so long as you could reduce the compressor heat enough, which is where your water injection comes in.....this can have similar effects to race fuel if setup correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 This is only partialy true mate, with a correctly setup J-spec with race fuel or water injection/meth spray you could theoretically run the turbos at this level, so long as you could reduce the compressor heat enough, which is where your water injection comes in.....this can have similar effects to race fuel if setup correctly We shall see when you have setup your car!! Otherwise, will have to wait until my car comes back in feb next year, as it will have all the supporting mods as mentioned for the single, including water injection, on stock turbos. All fully mapped once the engine is run in... 1000 miles... :( At least I can finally drive the car!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 470BHP at the Fly is possible with HYBRIDS. No set of stock turbos can flow that much, Period. 450RWHP is easiest to achieve with a BL T61. Hybrids can't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 470BHP at the Fly is possible with HYBRIDS. No set of stock turbos can flow that much, Period. 450RWHP is easiest to achieve with a BL T61. Hybrids can't do it. Nicely said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Heckler has hyrbids, 470BHP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Heckler has hyrbids, 470BHP. Estimated at the FLY. Which is exactly what I just said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Estimated at the FLY. Which is exactly what I just said Yes i know, which is what i have said at the start of the thread, for 450BHP hybrids or small single, Oh and if i meant RWHP i would have said 450RWHP...im touchy today Alex:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Yes i know, which is what i have said at the start of the thread, for 450BHP hybrids or small single, Oh and if i meant RWHP i would have said 450RWHP...im touchy today Alex:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURT Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Yes i know, which is what i have said at the start of the thread, for 450BHP hybrids or small single, Oh and if i meant RWHP i would have said 450RWHP...im touchy today Alex:D bud.. cant see you getting a real 450bhp RWHP on hybrids.. edited to say.. unless yoy want egt so high they could kill your engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 bud.. cant see you getting a real 450bhp RWHP on hybrids.. edited to say.. unless yoy want egt so high they could kill your engine Burt you pulling my leg? lol where have i said 450RWHP is achiveable with Hybrids? might want to read my post again. The thread starter aksed what reccomendations for 450BHP i took this as the power at the fly, and I reccomended Hybrids or even a small single. Edited for Typo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURT Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 well it was fun having a tug on it while it lasted..lol sorry fella, my mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 well it was fun having a tug on it while it lasted..lol sorry fella, my mistake Luvin you car tho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisavila100 Posted July 26, 2006 Author Share Posted July 26, 2006 wkdtime is right! when i said a real 450hp i meant at the fly! the reason was i just know a lot of figures get inflated when you want to part with your hard earned cash and i did not want people telling me that they can give me 450 when realisticly it would run a lot less!! and its been an intresting thread to find out just how much you need to change to produce that sort of power at the fly!! thanks for all the advice everyone but due to my budget i think i will just be going bpu for now! this should be quick enough for now!! only thing that worries me is my best mate is having his vw corrado 2.9VR6 turbo charged and the tuner(which has done many before!) has said it will produce 370 at the fly!! now if my supra gets 400/415 at the fly i think it could be a close race down the drag strip due to his car being almost 300lb lighter than mine! and ive got £300 bet on this race!! but bragging rights will be worth soo much more!! especially as its costing him £5000 to get that power!! so here is my list of mods just to check im doing things right to achieve 400?415 at the fly!! fcd/colder plugs/boost controller/full decat/fuel controller and finaly a fmic but to be honest i really want to keep the auto spoiler so are there any fmic that can be fitted so i can keep the auto spoiler???? if not then it might have to be a uprated smic!! not too sure what advantages/differences i will see between the two and if the fmic is worth the extra money! what do you all think?? once again thanks guys really appricated all the info and hopfully ill get to meet some of you some time soon!! thanks chris.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 To keep the Auto spoiler youll have to go for a Side mounted I/C for it to stay operational, or you could go FMIC route and keep the spoiler permenantly deployed, To go BPU on a UK spec you have pretty much listed everyting you need, But to get the best out of it, i'd defo go double decat 3" (no real power gains, just slighly quicker spool up as appose to 2.5" pipes), the fuel controller is not needed mate at BPU stage, Id also reccomend the following gauges, Boost pressure, AFR, and fuel pressure, The last two arent required but it would be 'wise'. With the above you could run the boost safely at 1.2-1.25Bar (assuming new I/C), as the UK have steel blades and better fuelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 470BHP at the Fly is possible with HYBRIDS. No set of stock turbos can flow that much, Period. . Actually Alex, 450bhp at the fly is possible with stock, I have done it years ago as you may remember. Type S fmic, dragger, cats out, twin power, more boost, blitz panel filter, and a short motor with 3k on it and valves etc reground at the same time, so motor was running as new compression, oh yes and 2 bottles of Millers octane boost. Considering the engine condition I did have a slight advantage. Oh yeah the r.road was new and had been calibrated days before. Wouldnt expect it from a 50K car though, I would guess 420bhp would be a max??. It's worth remembering that 450 is only 7 % more than 420bhp. 7% aint that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.